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Brain Drain Across the United States

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Re: Brain Drain Across the United States

#201

Post by phamilton »

threatofrain wrote: post #179
phamilton wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One big part of this is that even if you have guaranteed maternity pay, it still hurts your career. In a highly competitive environment, I don't see how not working for X amount of time doesn't lead to being X amount of time behind in career growth. The answer is to have less competitive environments. In Sweden, jantelagen (a cultural sentiment that discourages overt personal ambition) is a huge part of what enables…

I would argue the answer is to offer both men and women the chance to have X time leave per child per Y time worked, that way there's no economic incentive to discriminate.

That still incentivises having children later. Lost growth compounds over a career, so delaying it would still make sense. It would then hurt those who choose children earlier.

Re: Brain Drain Across the United States

#202

Post by JamesBarney »

kgarten wrote: post #180
JamesBarney wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a bunch of longitudinal iq studies which show a large erfect. And by conscientiousness I meant the big 5 psychology measure which also has large longitudinal studies.

IQ is not intelligence. For the longitudinal iq studies, check how they measured IQ (spoiler: it changes ;) ).

Are you arguing that iq isn't correlated with success?

Re: Brain Drain Across the United States

#203

Post by JamesBarney »

ausbah wrote: post #189
JamesBarney wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because educating people doesn't change their genetics. If as a society you care about basketball playing ability. And you find tall people are having less kids than short people no amount of basketball camps are going to make the next generation taller. Also what we care about is societal contribution which primarily happens through work and we're terrible at making people better at their jobs through the education…

Education doesn't improve genetics, but it still improves a person's intelligence and overall abilities (reading, writing, arithmetic, critical thinking). There is value in providing education to everyone, regardless of their intelligence (however you wish to define that).

Calling the evidence that education(post high school) improves intelligence scant would be generous.

Re: Brain Drain Across the United States

#204

Post by threatofrain »

phamilton wrote: post #201
threatofrain wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue the answer is to offer both men and women the chance to have X time leave per child per Y time worked, that way there's no economic incentive to discriminate.

That still incentivises having children later. Lost growth compounds over a career, so delaying it would still make sense. It would then hurt those who choose children earlier.

That's a problem that may require more policy nuance, but I thought both men and women face a similar modicum of risks for waiting too long for kids, so men cannot get an advantage on women over this.

Re: Brain Drain Across the United States

#205

Post by Izkata »

jaredklewis wrote: post #163
burlesona wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure the map backs up what you're saying. If you look at the 2017 Net Brain Drain it shows the following top gainers: - Texas - Virginia - Illinois - Maryland - Colorado - California - New Jersey - New York - Massachussets Georgia and North Carolina also showed strong gains (along with many other states). That may be blue-leaning but it's not a landslide. It's more like people are concentrating in the biggest…

How is it not a landslide? Of the 9 top gainers you listed, only one leans republican (Texas) [1]. All others lean democratic. Of course as pointed out by a sibling, it’s kind of an irrelevant point anyway. The brain migration is away from rural areas (which are red, regardless of state), to big cities (which are blue, regardless of state). That only reenforces the parent’s hypothesis that intellectuals resent the an…

Illinois at least supports their claim - that it's because of the large cities, not the states as a whole. Take away Chicago and Illinois would be pretty Republican: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/51/Il...

Re: Brain Drain Across the United States

#206

Post by phamilton »

threatofrain wrote: post #204
phamilton wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That still incentivises having children later. Lost growth compounds over a career, so delaying it would still make sense. It would then hurt those who choose children earlier.

That's a problem that may require more policy nuance, but I thought both men and women face a similar modicum of risks for waiting too long for kids, so men cannot get an advantage on women over this.

> men and women face a similar modicum of risks for waiting too long for kids

Sadly, biology disagrees.

That aside, the original thread was that those who delay children have fewer children and the conclusion is this situation selects against the things that lead to delaying children. If career ambition is genetic, then each generation will have less of it. At least, that's the theory here.

Re: Brain Drain Across the United States

#207

Post by PavlovsCat »

rosemary1337 wrote: post #191
PavlovsCat wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For this we have no evidence. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability_of_IQ

Genetics is not the only form of inheritance. You can "inherit" opportunity -- wealthier (and usually more intelligent) people end up in wealthier neighborhoods with better schools and the vicious cycle turns and turns.

> Genetics is not the only form of inheritance.

Only one form is needed to refute the claim that we "have no evidence, quite the opposite" that children's intelligence is correlated to parental intelligence.

Re: Brain Drain Across the United States

#208

Post by dredmorbius »

loeg wrote: post #81
dredmorbius wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm wondering how much of that might have been the Great Migration: of (mostly poorer, less educated) blacks leaving the South specifically because of institutional oppression directly causing that lack of education and poverty.

Great Migration as a concept mostly predates 1970.

Checking; Wikipedia gives dates as 1916 to 1970, peaking 1950-1970, so precicsely within the data period mentioned:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Migration_%28African_Ame...

Re: Brain Drain Across the United States

#209

Post by TYPE_FASTER »

skookumchuck wrote: post #175
toofy wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet they’re not tumbling into nothingness, in fact, many reasonable people place Sweden as an amazing place in many metrics, stable in the top 10% for most lists I’ve seen—everything from happiness levels to GDP(PPP). Makes me question whether or not our (USians) shouldn’t push for a cultural change where we don’t worship so heavily at the alter of the hyperambitious.

Ambition is what makes things happen. Do you think Apple and the iPhone would have happened without the hyper-ambition of Jobs? It happened in the US, too, not in Sweden.

Skype (Zennstrom) Kazaa Ericsson Minecraft

Re: Brain Drain Across the United States

#210

Post by kgarten »

jeffbax wrote: post #183
ccffph wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My mother, a poor immigrant, managed to provide me with education just fine in the US. Nothing to do with the funding or programs or systems - its just willpower.

The alleged "socialist" success stories tend to have strong labor laws, but also much less business regulation and be much more free market than the typical American has been led to believe. Sweden for example has no minimum wage and fully voucher-ized education which are anathema to the US left. So I'd disagree there aren't things holding students in the US back, they just hold the entire DNC captive. Sweden also ha…

I’m just arguing that affordable and more education is good.

students in the us often have to take on a tremendous amount of debt to get one.

You seem not to like the word “Socialist.” I think it’s obvious that we as humans should help each other if one of us is doing not well due to misfortune.

For me a country should be evaluated on how much it cares about the ones that don’t have power (homeless, immigrants, elderly etc.)

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