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Why Good Developers Are Promoted into Unhappiness (2007)

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Re: Why Good Developers Are Promoted into Unhappiness (2007)

#141

Post by awinder »

achenatx wrote: post #123
jasonkester wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A better fourth path is to transition to running your own business. You still get to write the code, and you remove the salary cap. People sweat about all the “Business Stuff” you have to do in addition, but I find it’s not really any more of your day than the normal boring admin stuff of being a rank and file developer. Certainly less than being a manager at a bigco. It also does away with ageism concerns.

this is what we do, we help our employees start their own businesses as the top of the career path. We will help them with marketing, HR, recruiting, finance, etc. Also they can run losses while getting started. We havent had anyone get promoted to this level, but several are close.

So that top tier is starting a new business line inside the company essentially? Or is the idea that that company might get spun off to a separate entity eventually? This sounds like a pretty nifty / unique idea so just curious how that works

Re: Why Good Developers Are Promoted into Unhappiness (2007)

#142

Post by abacadaba »

jasonkester wrote: post #49
wjossey wrote: post #22

I’ve been reviewing a lot of career path documents recently for different engineering orgs, and every one is fairly uniform in that you either progress into management, team leadership, or architecture (or some blend of the three). If not, you’ll stagnate at a pretty high level, but stagnate none the less. I’ve been noodling on this for a while, and I think maybe a fourth track at a lot of organizations should be spe…

A better fourth path is to transition to running your own business. You still get to write the code, and you remove the salary cap. People sweat about all the “Business Stuff” you have to do in addition, but I find it’s not really any more of your day than the normal boring admin stuff of being a rank and file developer. Certainly less than being a manager at a bigco. It also does away with ageism concerns.

Starting to see this as the only viable option for myself, a big leap though.

Re: Why Good Developers Are Promoted into Unhappiness (2007)

#143

Post by weberc2 »

laythea wrote: post #93
ed_balls wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you can start with a current employer

be warned: the government does not like it if you are an employee and then go directly into contracting for said same company. you become an "employee under guise" and then you will be taxed as such. then you get the worst of both worlds.

Which government?

Re: Why Good Developers Are Promoted into Unhappiness (2007)

#144

Post by Veelox »

ses1984 wrote: post #133
scarface74 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So instead of going into management because you don’t like management and want to stay an individual contributor, you now become not only the manager of your own company, now you have to worry about marketing, finances, etc. I go to bed every night not worrying about whether my company remains sustainable. If they don’t, as long as it is a microeconomic issue (company failed) and not a macroeconomic issue (economy is…

One. 45 is the very beginning of when ageism starts to show (at most companies). There are certainly some companies that would be biased against a 45 but maybe you don't work there. Just wait. Two. You're not going to multiply your salary by 2x-20x unless you start to take on more responsibility, like worrying about sustainability.

>You're not going to multiply your salary by 2x-20x

Well damn, I guess I am going to have to make do with 200k being a rank and file developer at a FAANG company.

Re: Why Good Developers Are Promoted into Unhappiness (2007)

#145

Post by awinder »

doppel wrote: post #45
wjossey wrote: post #22

I’ve been reviewing a lot of career path documents recently for different engineering orgs, and every one is fairly uniform in that you either progress into management, team leadership, or architecture (or some blend of the three). If not, you’ll stagnate at a pretty high level, but stagnate none the less. I’ve been noodling on this for a while, and I think maybe a fourth track at a lot of organizations should be spe…

I read this article a few months ago about being a Principal Engineer, https://blog.dbsmasher.com/2019/01/28/on-being-a-principal-e... , and ever since it’s been my designated career path / plan. I am in the lucky position of working in a small-but-growing team of developers, so I get to choose my career advancement and have support to follow this road. I think a principal engineer is the right mix of (still) develop…

I hopped between lead -> manager -> lead and I agree, though it’s informative to see the problem approached from both sides if you can stomach a manager stint (I had much trouble). Lead/Manager pairs have roughly the same success metrics IMO but split responsibilities and focus areas so you’re definitely right there, in my experience manager/lead is the same level on different career paths

Re: Why Good Developers Are Promoted into Unhappiness (2007)

#147

Post by weberc2 »

skrebbel wrote: post #116
aetherspawn wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you, as a contractor, find this sort of work?

From your network, and everybody has a network. However, you need to make sure that your network knows that you're available. So: email everyone you know (also non-programmers) a 4-sentence email that you're now a contractor. Explicitly list the domains and technologies you can "hit the ground running" at, and focus on those. People need to be able to see you as "a great Java programmer" or "a great iOS programmer".…

How does the lone contractor model compare with working for a contractor company?

Re: Why Good Developers Are Promoted into Unhappiness (2007)

#148

Post by jasonkester »

scarface74 wrote: post #125
jasonkester wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A better fourth path is to transition to running your own business. You still get to write the code, and you remove the salary cap. People sweat about all the “Business Stuff” you have to do in addition, but I find it’s not really any more of your day than the normal boring admin stuff of being a rank and file developer. Certainly less than being a manager at a bigco. It also does away with ageism concerns.

So instead of going into management because you don’t like management and want to stay an individual contributor, you now become not only the manager of your own company, now you have to worry about marketing, finances, etc. I go to bed every night not worrying about whether my company remains sustainable. If they don’t, as long as it is a microeconomic issue (company failed) and not a macroeconomic issue (economy is…

You're doing that thing I warned you not to do...

I go to bed every night not worrying about whether my company remains sustainable.

As do I. The key is to build the business to the point where it replaces your income before you quit your dev job. Once it's ticking away, there's very little that can happen over the course of the night (or a month) that can much affect its profitability.

The same amount of money appears in my account every other week whether I go on vacation, call in sick, etc.

Same here, with the addition of it still coming in if I decide to drop down to 20 minute weeks for the next year or so while focusing on something else.

You're right about the Ageism thing though. I do still hop back into the working world from time to time (to keep the skills fresh and buzzword-compliant), and companies seem more than happy to hire an experienced guy to build things for them.

But yeah, back to the point at hand: try not to scare yourself off by the "business stuff" of running a business. You can do as much or as little of it as you like, and so long as the product is good and your marketing is in place, it's just not a big deal.

Re: Why Good Developers Are Promoted into Unhappiness (2007)

#149

Post by ses1984 »

Veelox wrote: post #144
ses1984 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One. 45 is the very beginning of when ageism starts to show (at most companies). There are certainly some companies that would be biased against a 45 but maybe you don't work there. Just wait. Two. You're not going to multiply your salary by 2x-20x unless you start to take on more responsibility, like worrying about sustainability.

>You're not going to multiply your salary by 2x-20x Well damn, I guess I am going to have to make do with 200k being a rank and file developer at a FAANG company.

If you're happy with that, great. I am. But we're not really the subjects of this thread are we?
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