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I'm a Data Scientist and It's Not My Passion

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Re: I'm a Data Scientist and It's Not My Passion

#141

Post by lilsoso »

peterwwillis wrote: post #104

If you can make $125k in your 20s, work that soul killing job for 10 years and put as much away as you can. Then at least you have the start of a nest egg by the time you reach retirement. If you do it backwards and save when you're older, it's 10x harder. Do your passion when you actually have a passion. Until then, work to live, and save save save. (But don't forget to travel)

That is sound advice for a limited amount of time, as you said ten years.

The risk is that before you know it you find yourself with a "fully-funded" retirement account, a stable career, and your vitality gone with your life now behind you. The trick is hard to pull off.

Re: I'm a Data Scientist and It's Not My Passion

#142

Post by cure »

TuringNYC wrote: post #58
ilikehurdles wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it’s 4500 stock options worth $0 each. Pretty generous. Other startups of that size are lucky to get you 1500 stock options at $0 each.

It really doesnt matter whether the startup gives you 4500, 1500, or 45000, or a million. You are being given the numerator without knowing the denominator, so it is all worth zero until you get to see the Cap Table. Most startups wont let you see the Cap Table. Even if you saw the Cap Table, there is still a lot of uncertainty, tons of illiquidity, and a long horizon. Options are nice, but they are not cash and do n…

> Options are nice, but they are not cash and do not belong in the same conversation as salary.

Also, options are usually tied to continued employment. If you leave the company, you will need to exercise your options within a certain amount of time (often, 3 months). This can easily be an outlay of (tens of) thousands of dollars. It depends on the number of options and the exercise price, which is set at time of the option grant based on the then-current 409b valuation of company shares.

So at that point you are left with a choice: spend a lot of money to exercise your options and buy a bunch of illiquid common stock, which may or may not be worth something someday. Or, just walk away from the options then and there.

Re: I'm a Data Scientist and It's Not My Passion

#143

Post by lame88 »

luckylion wrote: post #129
lame88 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is absolutely pressure to go to college, but there is hardly pressure to follow passions. If there was, then the two would be in conflict. The pressure is: don't follow your passions, go to college, major in STEM or "something useful". What has that resulted in? An inflation of watered-down STEM-lite degrees not just from the standard degree factories but accredited state research universities, that provide non…

> Because philosophy heavily emphasizes critical and abstract thinking. I've taken a few classes in philosophy (it was my major for a while), and I can't tell if this is super different in the US vs Europe or you're just making stuff up, but this is just not what I saw. Yes, logic is part of philosophy, and everybody needs to take that class, but it's not heavily emphasized for the majority of students. Being able to…

Oh, and STEM is different? Let me try: math and physics aren't about understanding quantity and the universe; they are about memorizing equations and pretending you know them just in time for the test. Computer science is about more about copying and pasting code and getting away with it. What you're describing - where gaming the system is the norm - is entirely valid, and a problem with education institutions as a whole, but it's completely independent of the subject matter.

I don't understand your last paragraph at all. Not everybody agrees, so therefore liberal arts education is invalid? Or not everybody agrees, so let's give up? These are defeatist attitudes to take in either case. Implicit in your argument, as a response to this whole thread, is that not "somebody has to do the work", which I have never argued against; you're saying "nobody should do anything but the work". Meaning STEM, or whatever BigCo is hiring for right now. We continue to have huge problems globally that either have nothing to do with technology or are directly caused by technology, that need to be solved with entirely different skillsets. People perform better when they are motivated, and money is a poor motivator after a certain point. You make a very poor assumption that someone studies one of these subjects and their skills and experiences just go into this void, and/or that I'm advocating that people major in something and strictly do that for the rest of their lives. If you want to do the hands-on work and major in Hands-On Working, then do it. But don't discourage others from doing what they want and are good at during the narrow window of their lives when society supports them to do it.

Re: I'm a Data Scientist and It's Not My Passion

#144

Post by rootusrootus »

sizzle wrote: post #137
rootusrootus wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally agree. I live in Portland and the attitude is much more relaxed, but I make well above the typical SV salary. I get to choose my technologies, work from home when I want, my company has no interest in anyone working more than 40 hours a week, etc. I'm sure I could make a bit more with the right job at the right company in SV, but the quality of life here is so good that I won't even consider it.

If it wasn't overcast/drizzling 80% of the year I would be there too...

If it were 80% of the year I'd move, ha! Hell, if it were half that I'd move. I don't want it to get too dry, one of the upsides of regular rain showers is everything stays pretty clean.

Re: I'm a Data Scientist and It's Not My Passion

#145

Post by luckylion »

lame88 wrote: post #143
luckylion wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because philosophy heavily emphasizes critical and abstract thinking. I've taken a few classes in philosophy (it was my major for a while), and I can't tell if this is super different in the US vs Europe or you're just making stuff up, but this is just not what I saw. Yes, logic is part of philosophy, and everybody needs to take that class, but it's not heavily emphasized for the majority of students. Being able to…

Oh, and STEM is different? Let me try: math and physics aren't about understanding quantity and the universe; they are about memorizing equations and pretending you know them just in time for the test. Computer science is about more about copying and pasting code and getting away with it. What you're describing - where gaming the system is the norm - is entirely valid, and a problem with education institutions as a w…

> Oh, and STEM is different?

You're making claims about philosophy, I'm not making claims about STEM - I don't know what you're trying to accomplish.

> Not everybody agrees, so therefore liberal arts education is invalid?

No. Not everybody agrees, thereforce "liberal arts advances humanity" isn't agreed upon and shouldn't guide us. Let's agree upon it first.

> you're saying "nobody should do anything but the work"

No. I'm saying "please contribute". And by "contribute" I mean "do something that all/most/many consider to be of value". If we start defining "contributing" to mean something that the individual believes to be valuable, then it's just random. Build houses, grow roses, torture people, whatever, as long as you feel like it's a good idea, you're contributing.

> But don't discourage others from doing what they want

I'd never dream of doing that. I'm just saying: if you want to do what you want, please pay for it yourself. Don't make me give you part of my money to indulge in your personal pleasures.

Re: I'm a Data Scientist and It's Not My Passion

#146

Post by luckylion »

bigred100 wrote: post #111
luckylion wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hasn't it already? It certainly is in Western Europe, a way to distinguish yourself from the filthy masses that need to do physical labor and the slightly smarter but soulless engineers and lawyers and what have you.

In USA (among the social group I grew up around), it seems like it’s mocked unless you’re also wealthy, in my opinion (eg the Starbucks barista who knows Latin). Even with eg Zuckerberg I think it’s mostly unknown that he has some knowledge of these things, or among many considered an eccentricity. Among very high level societal elites or extremely educated people perhaps it’s viewed differently (I would know nothing…

Yeah, I've seen part of that on the web, but I never know how much of it is ironic.

It's very different in Europe, there may be some mocking, and we also don't create unlimited jobs for every graduate, but they'll most likely not end up doing minimum wage jobs, and most of them easily transition into working in the media, for the government, large corporations or foundations.

Re: I'm a Data Scientist and It's Not My Passion

#147

Post by lame88 »

lostmsu wrote: post #102
lame88 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is either a low effort bait post or exactly the kind of bullshit tech-worship I've come to despise. There's more to life and learning than STEM and whatever rides the current economic wave.

I disagree. Without significant advances in STEM the last 200 years would be pretty much identical to the 200 years before them, and another 200 before them, etc.

Black people and women in the US got the right to vote just in the past century. What about that says STEM to you?

Re: I'm a Data Scientist and It's Not My Passion

#148

Post by lostmsu »

lame88 wrote: post #147
lostmsu wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. Without significant advances in STEM the last 200 years would be pretty much identical to the 200 years before them, and another 200 before them, etc.

Black people and women in the US got the right to vote just in the past century. What about that says STEM to you?

History is very complicated thing. But the quick spread of the trend would not be possible without communications and expanding transocean travel to name the least.

Same applies to coordinated protest activities.

Re: I'm a Data Scientist and It's Not My Passion

#149

Post by John23832 »

lostcolony wrote: post #70
TuringNYC wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really doesnt matter whether the startup gives you 4500, 1500, or 45000, or a million. You are being given the numerator without knowing the denominator, so it is all worth zero until you get to see the Cap Table. Most startups wont let you see the Cap Table. Even if you saw the Cap Table, there is still a lot of uncertainty, tons of illiquidity, and a long horizon. Options are nice, but they are not cash and do n…

I feel like you didn't actually read/understand his comment. He stated they were worth $0, implying that it doesn't matter how many they give; they're still worth $0. It was cheekily pointing out how worthless stock options in a pre-IPO startup are.

They're worthless pre-IPO because of the allocations in the cap table...

Re: I'm a Data Scientist and It's Not My Passion

#150

Post by [deleted] »

luckylion wrote: post #146
bigred100 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In USA (among the social group I grew up around), it seems like it’s mocked unless you’re also wealthy, in my opinion (eg the Starbucks barista who knows Latin). Even with eg Zuckerberg I think it’s mostly unknown that he has some knowledge of these things, or among many considered an eccentricity. Among very high level societal elites or extremely educated people perhaps it’s viewed differently (I would know nothing…

Yeah, I've seen part of that on the web, but I never know how much of it is ironic. It's very different in Europe, there may be some mocking, and we also don't create unlimited jobs for every graduate, but they'll most likely not end up doing minimum wage jobs, and most of them easily transition into working in the media, for the government, large corporations or foundations.

[deleted]
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