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Brain Drain Across the United States

jec.senate.gov

51–60 of 213 posts

Re: Brain Drain Across the United States

#51
Now, consider the "meta-brain-drain" of 1) increased assortative mating (people are increasingly more likely to marry someone of similar educational and professional achievement) and 2) college-educated women delaying childbirth and having fewer children than non-college-educated women.

The net result is that more educated people tend to have fewer children than the less educated. If we assume educational attainment is correlated with intelligence, and children's intelligence is correlated to parental intelligence, this doesn't bode well for future generations. It seems like we as a society need to figure out a way to make "have children at a reasonable age" not be a low-status move for highly educated / driven / intelligent women.

https://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases/archives/fertility/...

Re: Brain Drain Across the United States

#52
Whenever I see this topic come up, I think back to the climactic speech in the movie Good Will Hunting, the one where Chuckie excoriates Will for wanting to put down roots in the community he grew up in. He concludes:

"It'd be an insult to us if you're still here in 20 years. Hangin' around here is a fuckin' waste of your time."

This was framed as an inspirational moment that finally pushed Will to achieve his potential. This idea -- that self-actualization requires abandoning your small-town roots -- is ingrained in our cultural DNA.

Re: Brain Drain Across the United States

#53
I'm not sure I can make sense of the "Gross" figures. The "Net" figures are easy to understand: people have generally moved to key urban areas, being CA, NY, IL, TX, VA/MD, GA and CO.

Compare that to the Net figures from 1940 through 1990, which show a clear migration to the Southern states. But I'm not even sure this is showing what it suggests. Is it simply a proxy for population growth?

Or is this thing just a symptom that people in general have a much lower chance of staying in the same state for 31-40 years?

I find the notion that people "self-select" into like-minded communities as some sort of "social segregation" baseless, even laughable. The South still has the echoes of slavery and (real) segregation that many have sought to escape. The implication here is that people are abandoning their communities. Are they though? What do they owe these states where they grew up? And are they abandoning such states or essentially being chased away because they simply don't conform to whatever cultural or religious norms dominate there? This seems particular relevant to the smaller and more rural states.

Bear in mind that education seems to be a partial antidote to religious dogma [1] in that people with more education tend to express religion less (although this is complicated and Christians seem to somewhat buck this trend). But given the cultural importance of religion in some communities, it seems like your more educated citizens are also more likely to leave, no?

19th century America was one of small, rural towns. With the railroad and homesteading these spread West. What probably began with the Industrial Revolution seemed to turn into a tidal wave of urbanization following the Second World War. Cities are just more efficient at delivering work opportunities.

[1] https://www.pewforum.org/2017/04/26/in-america-does-more-edu...

Re: Brain Drain Across the United States

#54
So. You, as a Representative in this case, have most of your power based on geographic concepts. Not related to anyone you actually govern in comparison to the rest of the country. You then are completely surprised that the party governing your state/city that has largely engaged in sycophancy isn't attracting actually intelligent people.

This is the most least surprising outcome and it these areas need to continue to be absolutely economically devastated until the populace learns the consequences of supporting really dumb government policies.

At least then people spouting off "party politic" lines will realize there is a fundamental, realistic, constructive difference of parties int the U.S. and what it means for society as a whole.

Re: Brain Drain Across the United States

#55
post #39

Brain Drain is about networking. Why would most give up the opportunity to relocate around the top thinkers in their field? Inhibiting this movement would arguably slow down progress, while making the country more robust (much like the pros/cons associated with most centralization vs. de-centralization topics). People from my hometown (pop. ~7500 in Midwest), do not realize that they are falling behind at an almost e…

> Inhibiting this movement would arguably slow down progress. Don't think the lawmakers want to inhibit movement rather, probably they want to use these conclusions to encourage people to stay. The prosperity brought by progress can be spread across many regions.

> People from my hometown (pop. ~7500 in Midwest), do not realize that they are falling behind at an almost exponential rate. Many are working jobs that require common training, they do not continue their education

Do you think it's caused by the lack of other people who are moving ahead aka role models or are there other factors(quality education etc...)?

I do feel and have seen despite being in the right place some people don't get same opportunities for upward mobility despite being literally next door.

Re: Brain Drain Across the United States

#56
Brain drain is one of numerous dynamics highly similar to Gresham's law, though with subtle implications. Goods movements, where mobile, follows direct reward.

Brain-drain may be for economic, technological, social, and cultural reasons. It's not uncommon for talent flows to be at least nominally bidirectional, though with different and distinct motivating factors. The flight of intellectual (and especially Jewish) European talent to the US before, during, and after WWII contrasts with black American's migration from the US, particularly though not just the South, to Europe. Contrast Fermi and Einstein against James Baldwin and Nina Simone. Both oppression (negative driver) and economic opportunity (positive) existed for each.

Within the British Commonwealth, substantial migratoon supported by some cultural and political commonality (even where other strong differences existed) facilitated vast human flows, generlly toward London, thpugh also other centres.

Similar dynamics exist within countries as well, often (per Jane Jacobs) at the urban regional level, particularly contrasted with rural regions. And hub formation / centres of excellence tend to accelerate such consolidation (a point Edward Glaeser argues relatively well, though with flaws).

Economic goods tend to move toward reward, and away from punishment or restraint, though the dynamic once in flow tends to be self-sustaining, at least for a time. There's much focus on positive network effects and growth, less on decline. But the immigration surces of migration toward first the U.S. Atlantic seaboard, and later the Western US, came from what had been earlier. priods' dynamic hubs. Why those declined should be instructive study.

Re: Brain Drain Across the United States

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re wondering where the downvotes are coming from, it’s probably because ad hominem attacks (attacking the person making the argument, rather than directly refuting their arguments; what you’re doing here, basically) are generally considered a logical fallacy.

I know where the downvotes are coming from, I have no concern about karma. That's his voting record, and links to his webpage, and the words are his. I said nothing negative about the man. All I asked is that people read it. You think this brain drain article with his face on it is logically disconnected from his politics?

Speaking frankly, I don’t see what anything that you posted has to do with brain drain. All you’re doing is pointing out unrelated things which you think makes the senator look bad.

Re: Brain Drain Across the United States

#58
post #41

Interesting... I've only ever heard of brain drain used in an international context. Which is where the US comes out as a winner, as we're gaining from all the highly educated Chinese and Indians who come here to work and start companies. I actually find the concept rather odd to use domestically, because it's generally used to show a contrast between a country paying for your college education, and then you reaping…

Georgia is an interesting outlier here: they introduced the HOPE scholarship in the 1990s to allow any in-state (already lived there for at least a year) student free tuition at a state school as long as they maintained a 3.0 GPA, all funded by the state lottery. And you have some pretty good schools to choose from here: University of Georgia, Georgia Tech, and Georgia State (which has improved a lot in the past 10 y…

> students aren't paying for their education, are going to school in the state where they likely grew up, and then are still leaving

This was me. I grew up in Georgia and went to Georgia Tech on the HOPE scholarship, but there just aren't many tech jobs in the area (despite the fact that GT has one of the top ranked CS programs). I moved to the Bay Area a year ago. If Georgia would incentivize the tech industry like it has with filmmaking recently, I bet a lot more people would stay.

Re: Brain Drain Across the United States

#59

Interesting how the South appears to have totally reversed course. In 1970, it appears it was attracting talent. Now, it's losing talent quickly. That's unfortunate.

I'm wondering how much of that might have been the Great Migration: of (mostly poorer, less educated) blacks leaving the South specifically because of institutional oppression directly causing that lack of education and poverty.

Re: Brain Drain Across the United States

#60

I’m from Kentucky, live on the west coast, and I cannot at all sympathize with those from there and similar states if they complain about brain drain. If you boast stupid, backwards policies and only give economic opportunities to the well connected, don’t be surprised when the intelligent but not well connected people leave the state. Maybe I’ll retire to my backwards hometown but I make more than double on the west…

Fellow Kentuckian here, now living in DC. Yep.
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