Earlier quoted context omitted.
check out irccloud
I am permanently banned from an IRC channel because I connected to it from IRCCloud.
What was the reasoning?
Mozilla is giving up on their IRC server
291–300 of 370 posts
Re: Mozilla is giving up on their IRC server
#292Discord is blocked in China, and a large number of people in China are not willing to use VPNs.
Discord uses themes that do not meet minimum contrast guidelines (#747F8D on #FFFFFF is 4.06:1, failing WCAG AA for normal text).
Discord says third-party clients[1] and even client-side CSS modifications violate their ToS https://twitter.com/discordapp/status/983359562458849280
[1] https://old.reddit.com/r/discordapp/comments/8tukek/ripcord_...
Re: Mozilla is giving up on their IRC server
#293Earlier quoted context omitted.
I can't fathom open source projects and communities using slack as a communication platform. I like slack, it's a great product for business, where you can pay $X for each user in your org. However, OS and non-profit communities quickly run into the history issue. There is no way that some of the communities I'm part of on Slack could pay for all the users. For example, the "Maker's Kitchen" slack has 1500-2000 peopl…
I thought IRC didn’t have message history either? I’m not saying Slack is good for open-source communities, but it seems like “not having history” would be the status quo.
IRC doesn’t have its own message history but most servers publish archives. You’d still need your client to load up archives for when you were offline if you wanted to see missed messages online. Otherwise you would have to look at the archive separately.
Re: Mozilla is giving up on their IRC server
#294Freenode works for other open source projects. Mozilla might even be able to direct a little resources and governance influence their way. (If Freenode didn't work out, it was worth a try, and an easy move from irc.mozilla.org.)
Rust has unofficial channel on Freenode, and it's mentioned in Rust team announcement for moving away from IRC: https://blog.rust-lang.org/2019/04/26/Mozilla-IRC-Sunset-and...
I am sure other products/teams have channels there too, they just won't be official go-to place to chat.
Re: Mozilla is giving up on their IRC server
#295Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is it DRM when a moderator deletes a post on a phpBB forum? Or does it only count when it's on Slack?
If a complete copy of all messages sent were on your computer and the administrator had the ability to delete this data from your computer whenever they want, I consider that to be an infringement on the control I expect of my own computer. On the other hand, the contents a phpBB forum (or even HN) are stored on someone else’s computer and no one has the ability to arbitrarily delete stuff that I’ve downloaded.
> an infringement on the control I expect of my own computer
How is it an infringement? The server saying 'so-and-so sent a message, here it is' is exactly no different to the server saying 'so-and-so deleted their message, get rid of it'.
You can always take logs
> On the other hand, the contents of a phpBB forum (or even HN) are stored on someone else's computer and nobody has the ability to arbitrarily delete stuff that I've downloaded
Yet, when you consult that forum, you're in the exact same position as you would be with Discord after someone has deleted a message — you cannot consult that content anymore unless you've explicitly backed it up (in the case of Discord, made your own log; in the case of a forum, downloaded or archived the relevant site elements).
Re: Mozilla is giving up on their IRC server
#296Earlier quoted context omitted.
> for the too many people that want to have fun while pretending to communicate It's exactly this kind of flippant dismissal that is why IRC is dying, because there are too many people who equate modernity with frivolity. That is, unless our requirements strictly adhere to your arbitrarily-defined notions of that which has merit, our voices are left unheard. And IRC's greatest defenders wonder why everybody jumps shi…
> I find it pretentious that anybody could consider the following features "having fun while pretending to communicate" straw-man argument. Nobody considers these things to be frivolous. I would consider slack's annoying gifs and discord's extensive emoji to be frivolous. > the ability to modify one's own messages Please, no. People editing their own messages later on is possibly the most annoying thing about slack a…
> straw-man argument
Not at all a strawman argument. As I stated, there are a plethora of features in Slack, Discord, and its ilk that are most assuredly not "having fun while pretending to communicate". The whole point of my post is that one cannot so off-handedly dismiss an entire class of application.
If GP meant to be dismissive of GIFs and emoji, they can easily have said so. (That said, one can post standard Unicode emoji to IRC, and will anybody call that frivolous?)
> People editing their own messages later on is possibly the most annoying thing about slack and discord
I'm willing to imagine that some rather high percentage, perhaps in the 80s or 90s, is just people fixing spelling, incorrectly-entered Markdown formatting, or other kinds of minor reformatting.
I'll take this over people spamming the text channel with further edits (that may still contain other faults, necessitating more edits in further lines to come).
> what if I want to disable images, video links, and especially web embeds?
You can in Discord.
> "collections of text channels" already exist
No, they don't. Channels have no groupings with others within one IRC server. You can't guarantee that a given set of channels on a similar topic have the same owner, same rules, etc. Joining a channel also doesn't automatically join you to another set of channels within that channel's group.
The flexibility of channel groups is not replicated in IRC.
> I don't think I've ever had an issue with a web client not working
So you can use any web client and, with only entering your username and nickserv password, any web client (A) knows what channels to connect you to, (B) what to set as your nickname, (C) how to handle a nickname collision, (D) set up your IRC capabilities all without any further configuration on your part?
'cos that's what people expect, that's what "just working" means. No config every time I encounter a new machine, no having to run a bouncer or screen session on some server in some godforsaken data centre and thus limit myself to terminal-based clients just to keep my connection details consistent across sessions, etc.
Re: Mozilla is giving up on their IRC server
#297Earlier quoted context omitted.
> for the too many people that want to have fun while pretending to communicate It's exactly this kind of flippant dismissal that is why IRC is dying, because there are too many people who equate modernity with frivolity. That is, unless our requirements strictly adhere to your arbitrarily-defined notions of that which has merit, our voices are left unheard. And IRC's greatest defenders wonder why everybody jumps shi…
>the ability to modify one's own messages >- the ability to delete one's own message, and have that deletion propagated > - the ability to delete other peoples' messages, and have that deletion propagated These 1) don’t work when you need them too and 2) are very much antifeatures I’ve been in slack and discourd channels with important people who will post things that cause me to make some decision and then will go b…
> These 1) don't work when you need them too
They don't? They work perfectly fine for me and always have. Citation needed.
> 2) are very much antifeatures
According to whom?
People use and profit from these features all day, every day on Slack and Discord. Whether you put any stock into them doesn't make any difference: they are features for a vast number of people other than yourself, they are definitely features.
> I really liked how on IRC you just sent messages and that was the end of it
I did, until I realised I and other people didn't have to spam the text channel with minor corrections to spelling, grammar, and markdown formatting with further messages containing the edits — and those messages may themselves contain errors, necessitating further ex post facto editing with more new lines.
> that would describe IRC better than discourd IMO
The day I can log into any IRC client, web or otherwise, without having had to set up my own bouncer and leave it running at home exposed to the internet or pay for a server, and it negotiates my IRC capabilities, joins all my channels, re-opens my private messages, shows me my chat history, and gives me a scrollback of the messages I've missed since my last session, I might be inclined to agree.
Not to mention what happens if I typically connect to multiple servers.
Until I am no longer forced to use such ugly workarounds to what should be simple session management that practically every other chat service has figured out, even before Discord and Slack, I don't consider IRC to 'just work' except in the sense that, yes, a non-negligible number of people have managed to get their fragile IRC configurations working just-so, likely on only one machine — good for them, but I have higher standards.
Re: Mozilla is giving up on their IRC server
#298Earlier quoted context omitted.
>the ability to modify one's own messages >- the ability to delete one's own message, and have that deletion propagated > - the ability to delete other peoples' messages, and have that deletion propagated These 1) don’t work when you need them too and 2) are very much antifeatures I’ve been in slack and discourd channels with important people who will post things that cause me to make some decision and then will go b…
I agree that it doesn't work and is antifeatures. I also like that on IRC you can just sent messages and there it is. You can have public logs, possibly server side logs (although as far as I know, implementations of this aren't common, but this is easily possible without altering the protocol or clients at all); private messages would not be logged though, so if you wish to remain private you should send the message…
> You can have public logs
You could equally have public logs in Discord and/or Slack. At least on Discord, this can be achieved through a bot — which, if logging is the aim, could be a very simple 20-line Python script.
Re: Mozilla is giving up on their IRC server
#299Earlier quoted context omitted.
Its worst problem is the inability to request scrollback from the server. I don't understand why that extension wasn't written, like, 20 years ago. You also need a "de facto official" client that includes a small list of default servers, and big friendly buttons for /JOIN and /PART - in fact the user should not be required to type a /COMMAND at any point.
Yes, I think this is fundamentally the main issue people have with IRC. Some IRC users don’t like the idea of the channel being logged though? That’s the best I can come up with for an argument against it.
I can't see why anyone would want that. If you weren't connected to the server then those lines were not sent to you. They're ephemeral. Ask someone to fill you in on what happened or send you a log.
Re: Mozilla is giving up on their IRC server
#300Earlier quoted context omitted.
And then everything ends up like the 'defaults', with memes and easy to vote up pictures utterly dominating. Despite scrapping the office "defaults" list, there is still clearly a rotation that get set up as default and they are by and large garbage.
>And then everything ends up like the 'defaults', with memes and easy to vote up pictures utterly dominating. I mod a good-sized sub all by myself, and I'm fairly militant about what gets through. The guidelines are clear and automod picks up a lot of the 'defaults' stuff -- but every so often something slips through and it gets so much karma. A while ago I figured I'd just allow memes and stuff, assuming that this w…
> but every so often something slips through and it gets so much karma.
Does that bother you? Why? If "so many" people like something, why should you or any handful of mods prevent them from seeing it?
What keeps you from deleting stuff that only you don't like, regardless of whether or not it "belongs" on the sub?
Do we just want an echo chamber?