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Can Uber ever make money?

economist.com

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Re: Can Uber ever make money?

#301

Post by kortilla »

Skunkleton wrote: post #79
parksy wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But in a way, that's the beauty of disruptive use of technology. Without the innovation of the Uber app, the traditional taxi cartels would have no incentive to improve their services and the fact that they have been forced to do so in order to compete benefits the consumer. They're not quite there yet, and are still catching up. The next logical step is a lift aggregation service that creates a marketplace. I want a…

As it stands the price you pay for a ride in an uber is unfairly low. Driving it even lower would be irresponsible.

The drivers don’t have to bid. Do you find eBay auctions “irresponsible”? You can’t hide from the market.

Re: Can Uber ever make money?

#302

Post by dymk »

uptown wrote: post #2

Outline Link: https://outline.com/endjbs

    If someone else might own the copyright to it, don't submit it. Outline is for reading pages that:

    1) you own the rights to,
    2) is in the public domain,
    3) constitutes fair use, or
    4) you have consent of the copyright holder.

Re: Can Uber ever make money?

#303

Post by 55555 »

danieltillett wrote: post #270
munificent wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> how is this supposed to create wealth for anybody except the shareholders who got in early with cheap valuations? Spoiler alert: It's not. The primary goal of a VC-backup startup is a positive return to its VC backers. Everything else is a necessary evil to attain that primary goal.

Now for the million dollar question - how is this different to a ponzi scheme?

It isn't JUST a ponzi scheme, but to some degree it sure seems like it is in part a ponzi scheme. Public investors pay back VCs and the entreprenuer and then get shafted. Actually, let's work through the Wikipedia definition line by line.

> A Ponzi scheme ... is a form of fraud that lures investors and pays profits to earlier investors with funds from more recent investors.[2]

One distinction that could be made is that the entreprenuer isn't actually paying investors back himself. Rather the investors are finding new investors and re-selling their shares up the river.

> The scheme leads victims to believe that profits are coming from product sales or other means, and they remain unaware that other investors are the source of funds.

In a very literal sense, when you invest in Uber's Series A and then sell your shares on an exchange after IPO, you are aware that your profits are coming from other investors. However, I think in a pretty meaningful sense people believe the value of the company has increased due to 'product sales or other means'.

It seems like a Ponzi-like startup is not illegal because it's not as deliberately deceptive nor is it schemed by a single party/person, but rather it's more the creation of the entire market and what is really causing the profits/payouts is more up-for-debate.

(I should have used the legal definition though, not Wiki.)

Re: Can Uber ever make money?

#305

Post by kortilla »

tomjakubowski wrote: post #262
dsfyu404ed wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Call me a snob You're a snob. I wish they'd relax their policy on vehicles. I would have no problem riding in 90s shitboxes. I would find it novel. As long as it's been vacuumed that week I don't care what condition it's in.

I'd rather pass on 90s-era safety tech

Such as?

Re: Can Uber ever make money?

#306

Post by kortilla »

IanCal wrote: post #243
lnanek2 wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. In SF whenever I called cabs they often wouldn't show up at all. I suppose they found a fare before they got to me. So features like ratings and assigned cars and ability to check the status added by Uber are all huge improvements for my usage.

I've not anywhere argued that it hasn't been beneficial for people, but simply that it is not innovative. Here, Uber is just another private hire taxi. They cannot pick up random people from the street (and be insured, anyway), so they would not be picking up random other fares on the way unless the dispatcher told them to. This is what has existed for a long time before Uber appeared, so replicating that elsewhere i…

>I've not anywhere argued that it hasn't been beneficial for people, but simply that it is not innovative.

And that’s what’s making you look like a dolt. Taxis in most of the world were (and mostly still are) unreliable gambles that vary from city to city. Calling on the phone and waiting for 40 minutes without live tracking and automatic rerouting for when the driver decides to stop for groceries is a completely different level of usefulness.

You just compared a flip phone to a smartphone (in more ways than one).

Re: Can Uber ever make money?

#307

Post by kortilla »

IanCal wrote: post #229
seltzered_ wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm critical of U/L, but it's ignorant to say there hasn't been any innovation. Back then, you had to know the phone number to call - I'd try to be diligent about keeping a taxi number in my contact list but it's invalid when I really need it when traveling in a different city. Trying to hail a cab during a busy holiday? Good luck with that - cab splitting existed but nowhere near as frictionless as through apps + ro…

> I'm critical of U/L, but it's ignorant to say there hasn't been any innovation. I won't say there's none, but there was a taxi app for me before Uber that knew where I was and let me book a taxi, that wasn't innovative. > Back then, you had to know the phone number to call - A benefit sure, but "being big" is not an innovation. > Trying to hail a cab during a busy holiday? Good luck with that Here when it's busy I…

>Every uber here uses Waze.

Swing and a miss. Op is talking about Uber’s scheduling system for assigning drivers to riders.

Re: Can Uber ever make money?

#308

Post by dreamcompiler »

wrboyce wrote: post #254
dreamcompiler wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because in the UK they have to know the area before they can get a taxi license. No such requirement exists in the US.

That is only true if you want to drive a black cab in central London. My northern taxis are just as OP described.

Didn't know that. Thanks.

Re: Can Uber ever make money?

#309

Post by maxlybbert »

astrodust wrote: post #222
GordonS wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Combine that with the fact that the drivers often don't know the neighborhood I used to travel to Houston quite a lot. Not sure if this is representative of taxis in general in the US, but the taxi drivers never knew the neighbourhood. I couldn't say "I want to go to Acme Stuff in X district", I had to give a "Cross road" (a very US thing, that) and the driver would use satnav based on that. It did seem that a lot…

That's probably because becoming a taxi driver in places like London is extremely hard ( https://www.theknowledgetaxi.co.uk ), while becoming a taxi driver in Houston is probably as simple as "do you have a license?"

I lived in a small New Jersey town where getting a taxi medallion involved little more than paying $100 and promising to charge every customer no more than $5 (for in-town trips).

Re: Can Uber ever make money?

#310

Post by danieltillett »

55555 wrote: post #303
danieltillett wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now for the million dollar question - how is this different to a ponzi scheme?

It isn't JUST a ponzi scheme, but to some degree it sure seems like it is in part a ponzi scheme. Public investors pay back VCs and the entreprenuer and then get shafted. Actually, let's work through the Wikipedia definition line by line. > A Ponzi scheme ... is a form of fraud that lures investors and pays profits to earlier investors with funds from more recent investors.[2] One distinction that could be made is th…

So it is different to a Ponzi scheme in that it has legal deniability, not in effect.
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