Can Uber ever make money? • Hacker News Board

Re: Can Uber ever make money?

#271

Post by SquishyPanda23 » Fri, Apr 26, 2019, 11:37 PM UTC

parksy wrote: post #58

skywhopper wrote: post #15

There is literally no way for a mass-market taxi service to make money unless they have a monopoly, or some unexpected disruptive technology comes along that gives one company an unassailable advantage in lowering costs. The Uber app was the original innovation, but it's not particularly innovative anymore. Besides Lyft, traditional taxi companies have similar apps in some markets. Skirting regulation and good labor…

But in a way, that's the beauty of disruptive use of technology. Without the innovation of the Uber app, the traditional taxi cartels would have no incentive to improve their services and the fact that they have been forced to do so in order to compete benefits the consumer. They're not quite there yet, and are still catching up. The next logical step is a lift aggregation service that creates a marketplace. I want a…

Sure, but I wonder if this was the best way for it to happen.

Couldn't we have gotten to taxi-hailing apps without allocating a bunch of capital to companies that might never turn a profit?

I'm just curious. I don't personally care because my money isn't invested and my rides are subsidized by the people who did invest.

Re: Can Uber ever make money?

#272

Post by outside1234 » Fri, Apr 26, 2019, 11:38 PM UTC

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #259

rubicon33 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Call me a snob, but Uber's criteria for what qualifies as an acceptable car has dramatically declined to the point where even Taxis are sometimes "nicer". Combine that with the fact that the drivers often don't know the neighborhood and rely exclusively on GPS (so tend to be worse drivers than a taxi). I'm left feeling like the fare - strictly from the perspective of a consumer - is actually too high.

>Call me a snob You're a snob. I wish they'd relax their policy on vehicles. I would have no problem riding in 90s shitboxes. I would find it novel. As long as it's been vacuumed that week I don't care what condition it's in.

They should add a tier of service so that you can choose as a rider.

Re: Can Uber ever make money?

#273

Post by IanCal » Fri, Apr 26, 2019, 11:42 PM UTC

JudgeWapner wrote: post #269

IanCal wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before Uber there was an app I could use to book a taxi. That's one of the main reasons I don't think their app was innovative. > This usually took at least 30-40m, if they arrived at all. Not for me, I would and still do get cars faster using other firms. Uber says they're two minutes away and they come ten minutes later. The only reason I use Uber is I get receipts I can push to my expenses.

do you think big hits in tech are merely the first one to code the idea? proper execution and business maneuvering are arguably more important than being the first "app to book a taxi".

> do you think big hits in tech are merely the first one to code the idea?

No. Nor have I suggested anything like that.

If they're not the first to have an app like they started with, why would you describe it as innovative?

I think their important business decisions were ignoring local rules (as I've said) and building a brand.

Re: Can Uber ever make money?

#274

Post by rmrfrmrf » Fri, Apr 26, 2019, 11:50 PM UTC

IanCal wrote: post #219

monsieurbanana wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hacker News about Dropbox (2007): "For a Linux user, you can already build such a system yourself quite trivially by getting an FTP account, mounting it locally with curlftpfs, and then using SVN or CVS on the mounted filesystem" Hacker News about Uber (2019): "It's really not much of a shift from a phone call either"

You have conveniently missed that there was already an app for ordering taxis before Uber for me. Also, yes, it's not much of a shift. I'm not arguing people rebuild it or have something together but the shift from: Call cab firm and say where you are to App calls cab firm and says where you are is not massively innovative. (edit - particularly when it has been done before) I know it's fun and cool to be snarky, but…

Wait until they hear about Amazon vs. the Sears-Roebuck catalog

Re: Can Uber ever make money?

#275

Post by therealx » Fri, Apr 26, 2019, 11:50 PM UTC

skywhopper wrote: post #15

There is literally no way for a mass-market taxi service to make money unless they have a monopoly, or some unexpected disruptive technology comes along that gives one company an unassailable advantage in lowering costs. The Uber app was the original innovation, but it's not particularly innovative anymore. Besides Lyft, traditional taxi companies have similar apps in some markets. Skirting regulation and good labor…

Do people actually use the taxi uber like apps? I ask everyone I make rideshare smalltalk with and no one has ever even said they'd installed it (small, poor sample size, I know.)

Re: Can Uber ever make money?

#276

Post by askafriend » Fri, Apr 26, 2019, 11:55 PM UTC

micael_dias wrote: post #4

wintorez wrote: post #3

Uber is not making money? How? Why?

Their expenses are higher than their revenue.

If I bought 10 McDonald's franchises today, my expenses would be higher than my revenue for probably the entire first year if not more.

If things are going well, and I make another bet by buying 10 more, my expenses would continue being higher than my revenue (even if the first 10 stores become profitable).

If I keep doing this, I may not show a profit on my balance sheet for a long time.

This example illustrates why "expenses are higher than revenue" doesn't reveal anything and that such a simplistic picture of a business is useless.

Re: Can Uber ever make money?

#277

Post by FiddlyPack » Fri, Apr 26, 2019, 11:56 PM UTC

IanCal wrote: post #246

kelnos wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me, the innovation isn't using an app instead of a phone call, it's the accountability and reliability. Before Uber, I'd have to call a taxi company at least a half hour before I want to leave. If they even answer the call, the response is always "20 minutes", regardless of how long you have to wait. At least a quarter of the time, the taxi will never show up. As a result, I'd barely ever take taxis anywhere. Inst…

So the innovation for you is something that has existed elsewhere before? Why is that innovative?

...the innovation is a consistent more reliable and timely experience, consistent across geographies, where it did not exist before.

McDonalds didn’t have the first burger franchise, the innovation is very much in the reliability of an experience that is a better fit for the needs of the consumer than the alternatives.

I too avoided booking taxis due to bad dispatchers, even though I’m sure some good dispatchers existed in some areas. That doesn’t really do you any good when the use case for a taxi is generally that you need a car in a place that is not your home, and so you are unfamiliar with the area.

Uber not only gave you a reliable dispatcher, they show you with GPS that the taxi on the way, which greatly improves consumer confidence that yes, the ride really is on its way. If that existed pre-Uber for some areas, it hardly matters if you never visit the area and so don’t know about it’s existence.

Re: Can Uber ever make money?

#278

Post by IanCal » Sat, Apr 27, 2019, 12:03 AM UTC

FiddlyPack wrote: post #277

IanCal wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the innovation for you is something that has existed elsewhere before? Why is that innovative?

...the innovation is a consistent more reliable and timely experience, consistent across geographies, where it did not exist before. McDonalds didn’t have the first burger franchise, the innovation is very much in the reliability of an experience that is a better fit for the needs of the consumer than the alternatives. I too avoided booking taxis due to bad dispatchers, even though I’m sure some good dispatchers exis…

> McDonalds didn’t have the first burger franchise,

So saying "the innovation is in the franchise" wouldn't make sense, right?

> That doesn’t really do you any good when the use case for a taxi is generally that you need a car in a place that is not your home, and so you are unfamiliar with the area.

The use case for a taxi is surely dominated by when you need a car but can't or don't want to drive? I've definitely taken more taxis near my home than away from it, purely because I'm here more often.

> Uber not only gave you a reliable dispatcher, they show you with GPS that the taxi on the way, which greatly improves consumer confidence that yes, the ride really is on its way. If that existed pre-Uber for some areas, it hardly matters if you never visit the area and so don’t know about it’s existence.

This seems like an odd description of innovation to me. "I didn't know about it so it's innovative"?

Remember, innovation is not the same as value. I'm not saying it doesn't add value to have these services elsewhere, but that the app is not innovative simply because it was not new.

Re: Can Uber ever make money?

#279

Post by taysic » Sat, Apr 27, 2019, 12:17 AM UTC

TuringNYC wrote: post #29

skywhopper wrote: post #15

There is literally no way for a mass-market taxi service to make money unless they have a monopoly, or some unexpected disruptive technology comes along that gives one company an unassailable advantage in lowering costs. The Uber app was the original innovation, but it's not particularly innovative anymore. Besides Lyft, traditional taxi companies have similar apps in some markets. Skirting regulation and good labor…

>> There is literally no way for a mass-market taxi service to make money unless they have a monopoly, or some unexpected disruptive technology comes along that gives one company an unassailable advantage in lowering costs. I dont understand this comment. Traditional taxis made money for generations, why cant Uber? If anything, Uber has more advantages. EVEN: Traditional taxis had the "rent" of medallions. Uber has t…

I feel like Uber can always make money as a marketplace - but competitive pressures from other marketplaces will drive profits down. However, is there any further growth in the model? Seemingly no unless they gain monopoly.

Re: Can Uber ever make money?

#280

Post by nospitate » Sat, Apr 27, 2019, 12:18 AM UTC

skywhopper wrote: post #15

There is literally no way for a mass-market taxi service to make money unless they have a monopoly, or some unexpected disruptive technology comes along that gives one company an unassailable advantage in lowering costs. The Uber app was the original innovation, but it's not particularly innovative anymore. Besides Lyft, traditional taxi companies have similar apps in some markets. Skirting regulation and good labor…

You are just fundamentally wrong. There is a cost associated with operating the “dispatch,” operating the car and paying the employees/contractors. Take that cost, distribute it over the number of rides you expect to give to your customers and then add a little on top. The question is whether or not the customers will engage in that transaction or is the cost too high? Uber has plenty of fat to cut. If it were running efficiently, there is no possible way it would go out of business. You think Uber will raise their prices 10 percent and then everyone will decide to give up ride-sharing? Uber is the most efficient method of doing taxis. It succeeds by default. I don’t understand how you can possibly think that Uber can’t make money.