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Researchers propose a new interdisciplinary subfield called “Machine Behaviour”

nature.com

31–40 of 54 posts

Re: Researchers propose a new interdisciplinary subfield called “Machine Behaviour”

#31

My highly cynical take as someone researching in ML is that all these interdisciplinary AI studies, AI policy, etc are mostly grifters trying to get in on the gold-rush. What has AI policy produced so far, really? Algorithm analysis and safety research is done on the algorithmic side, not on the policy side. Every time I have read an AI policy paper, it has been listings of desirable properties with absolutely no inp…

Seems to be #2. There are more people worried about a computer making decisions impacting them than there are people who understand the algorithms themselves.

Re: Researchers propose a new interdisciplinary subfield called “Machine Behaviour”

#32
post #28
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no value in trying to redefine it after, what, 70 years? That implies any meaningful definition to begin with. That is entirely an illusion and people are using this to mislead investors (not that I'll ever shed a tear for them).

People absolutely use it usefully, that it can be used as marketing fluff is a far more recent thing. If it's never been used usefully and isn't now, there's no point arguing about it because that war has been lost and if it has been used usefully redefining it makes no sense. Arguing about definitions is easily one of the least relevant parts of any discussion so I'll leave it here. I just wish AI topics didn't alwa…

> Arguing about definitions is easily one of the least relevant parts of any discussion

Ahh silicon valley, never change, this comedy can't be bought. I hope the linguistic turn hits you on the ass on the way down.

Re: Researchers propose a new interdisciplinary subfield called “Machine Behaviour”

#33
post #27
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Image recognition, natural language processing, self piloted vehicles Obviously none of these are AI and I don't see how you're helping anything by insinuating they are.

And this folks, is the AI Effect in practice.

Hey, at least I don't sell snake oil.

Re: Researchers propose a new interdisciplinary subfield called “Machine Behaviour”

#34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience most researchers are more than happy to share with you the paper upon askance via e-mail.

If I asked for a paper and they looked at me askance, I'd wonder why I emailed them instead of just asking - since we're in viewing range obviously.

Damn autocarrot.

Re: Researchers propose a new interdisciplinary subfield called “Machine Behaviour”

#35

My highly cynical take as someone researching in ML is that all these interdisciplinary AI studies, AI policy, etc are mostly grifters trying to get in on the gold-rush. What has AI policy produced so far, really? Algorithm analysis and safety research is done on the algorithmic side, not on the policy side. Every time I have read an AI policy paper, it has been listings of desirable properties with absolutely no inp…

Here's some valuable research: https://arxiv.org/abs/1808.00023

Re: Researchers propose a new interdisciplinary subfield called “Machine Behaviour”

#36
post #32
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People absolutely use it usefully, that it can be used as marketing fluff is a far more recent thing. If it's never been used usefully and isn't now, there's no point arguing about it because that war has been lost and if it has been used usefully redefining it makes no sense. Arguing about definitions is easily one of the least relevant parts of any discussion so I'll leave it here. I just wish AI topics didn't alwa…

> Arguing about definitions is easily one of the least relevant parts of any discussion Ahh silicon valley, never change, this comedy can't be bought. I hope the linguistic turn hits you on the ass on the way down.

I'm not really sure what it is you expect to bite me about using a term as almost everyone else has and continues to use it.

Re: Researchers propose a new interdisciplinary subfield called “Machine Behaviour”

#37
post #36
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Arguing about definitions is easily one of the least relevant parts of any discussion Ahh silicon valley, never change, this comedy can't be bought. I hope the linguistic turn hits you on the ass on the way down.

I'm not really sure what it is you expect to bite me about using a term as almost everyone else has and continues to use it.

Self respect, I guess.

Re: Researchers propose a new interdisciplinary subfield called “Machine Behaviour”

#38
post #19

My highly cynical take as someone researching in ML is that all these interdisciplinary AI studies, AI policy, etc are mostly grifters trying to get in on the gold-rush. What has AI policy produced so far, really? Algorithm analysis and safety research is done on the algorithmic side, not on the policy side. Every time I have read an AI policy paper, it has been listings of desirable properties with absolutely no inp…

a common pattern I see in papers written by people on the technical side is: "The correct way of ensuring algorithmic fairness is X" where X is something they already happened to work on. In various papers X could be robust optimization, differential privacy, causal inference, adversarial training, etc. The papers are mostly good, actually, but it's sort of putting the cart before the horse. I think there might be le…

> The papers are mostly good, actually

Not surprising. Computer scientists have a bit of experience with computation, after all. It would actually be more concerning if a bunch of new stuff was being invented whole cloth.

> but it's sort of putting the cart before the horse.

Not at all. ML algorithms are just fucking algorithms and computer scientists have been thinking about what it means for an algorithm to be correct since... Turing.

And have been proving various theorems about ML algorithms in particular since at least the 60s.

Complaints that "AI safety looks a lot like previous CS research" are basically equivalent to observations that "neural nets have been around for a lot longer than alexnet".

> I think there might be legitimate value in having a bunch of lawyers, sociologists, and philosophers set a target more-or-less in ignorance, and let the people on the technical side try to hit it.

I disagree. This is how you end up with endless navel gazing about trolley problems while actual vehicles kill people by accelerating without control because redundant parts are too expensive and engineers don't have enough voice. Philosophers are rarely interested in honest-to-god engineering ethics, which almost always boils down to "pay well enough to hire good people, and then listen to the good people you're paying good money to have around".

Re: Researchers propose a new interdisciplinary subfield called “Machine Behaviour”

#39
If you lead, or aspire to lead, major projects, I submit a reasonable definition of 'major' includes sitting at the table in national capitols with senior policy makers. They will expect you to be as invested in understanding their concerns, and the concerns of their constituents, as they are in trying to understand your project and your objectives. Reading articles like this, and I read and annotated the whole thing, is the homework you are going to have to do. Yes, they should all learn category theory and linear algebra and they haven't. That doesn't mean you suddenly have insight on the evolution of the problem spaces they've spent their entire, obviously successful careers navigating. So maybe take the time pay the penence for your genius, and invest the time to understand something about their efforts as they are fumbling around in the dark. At least they had the decency to put in writing for you to read, or ridicule as the case may be.

Also, feel free to look up some of the authors on this paper. They don't suck.

Re: Researchers propose a new interdisciplinary subfield called “Machine Behaviour”

#40
post #33
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this folks, is the AI Effect in practice.

Hey, at least I don't sell snake oil.

Are you sure you aren't conflating AGI with AI? If not, could you define AI?
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