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Can Uber ever make money?

economist.com

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Re: Can Uber ever make money?

#221

Post by kelnos »

cabaalis wrote: post #211
rubicon33 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Call me a snob, but Uber's criteria for what qualifies as an acceptable car has dramatically declined to the point where even Taxis are sometimes "nicer". Combine that with the fact that the drivers often don't know the neighborhood and rely exclusively on GPS (so tend to be worse drivers than a taxi). I'm left feeling like the fare - strictly from the perspective of a consumer - is actually too high.

> drivers often don't know the neighborhood and rely exclusively on GPS I drove for Uber about 3 years ago for a couple of months when getting my consultancy off the ground, which led to my current gig. If I had a way to tell Uber "Don't give me rides that require me to leave a given geofence--we'll all have a bad time." Then I'd have been much, much happier. Everyone wanted a ride from my suburban town to the metro…

The problem there is twofold:

1) Many drivers from your town would likely geofence themselves to your town, reducing the supply of drivers that will drive to the metro area, increasing wait times and driving up prices, making riders unhappy.

2) Drivers would use this feature to avoid driving to "bad" parts of town, making transportation discriminatory. (In ways that are illegal for traditional taxi companies, so Uber would eventually run afoul of the same regulations.)

It's a shame because there are reasonable use cases for a geofencing feature (you seem to certainly be one of them), but it can be easily abused and can hurt the rider experience depending on locale. (Not saying the rider experience is inherently more important, but certainly Uber/Lyft would see it that way.)

Re: Can Uber ever make money?

#222

Post by astrodust »

GordonS wrote: post #216
rubicon33 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Call me a snob, but Uber's criteria for what qualifies as an acceptable car has dramatically declined to the point where even Taxis are sometimes "nicer". Combine that with the fact that the drivers often don't know the neighborhood and rely exclusively on GPS (so tend to be worse drivers than a taxi). I'm left feeling like the fare - strictly from the perspective of a consumer - is actually too high.

> Combine that with the fact that the drivers often don't know the neighborhood I used to travel to Houston quite a lot. Not sure if this is representative of taxis in general in the US, but the taxi drivers never knew the neighbourhood. I couldn't say "I want to go to Acme Stuff in X district", I had to give a "Cross road" (a very US thing, that) and the driver would use satnav based on that. It did seem that a lot…

That's probably because becoming a taxi driver in places like London is extremely hard (https://www.theknowledgetaxi.co.uk), while becoming a taxi driver in Houston is probably as simple as "do you have a license?"

Re: Can Uber ever make money?

#223

Post by linuxftw »

I think Uber can easily make money if they function more as a marketplace and less as an opaque transportation company.

Their job is to connect riders to potential taxi providers (which is what they are, since they're all 'contractors'). Contractors could have a rating that's viewable before accepting a ride offer from the driver.

Fire almost all of their staff, just need a skeleton crew to keep the webstore and ride-match stuff up. Stop wasting money on self driving stuff, it's never going to happen. Take a flat rate per-ride, done.

Re: Can Uber ever make money?

#224

Post by crazygringo »

Uber isn't in the taxi business, it's in the self-driving car business. Taxis with drivers are just a stopgap, just like DVD's were a stopgap for Netflix.

The Economist is right that there are few real network effects or moats around the taxi business. But Uber's valuation depends on it:

- Developing the best driverless tech

- Being able to roll driverless taxis out to an established customer base faster and at far larger scale than anyone else (main advantage over Waymo/Tesla)

- Using a headstart in driverless tech, compared with huge data advantage from millions of Uber rides, to maintain the #1 position

Of course all this depends on Uber being able to develop the best self-driving tech, and getting such a data+scale first-mover advantage to stay ahead of competitors.

Skeptics will say Waymo will have the best tech, and expand/scale its taxi service effortlessly, and thus that Uber's existing customer base doesn't provide any advantage at all -- everyone will just jump ship from Uber to Waymo.

Re: Can Uber ever make money?

#225

Post by caseyohara »

rubicon33 wrote: post #145
cbhl wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are your thoughts on Uber Select / Uber Black / Lyft Lux / Lyft Lux Black?

Definitely a fan of the Select and Black options. In fact, I've been using them more and more. The price - while higher - feels more aligned with what I would consider to be "good value". Ranked in order of importance for me are: - A competent + safe driver, preferably someone who knows the area. - A nice, clean, comfortable ride. - A driver who doesn't talk to me. All 3 of these are markedly improved in both the Sel…

> A driver who doesn't talk to me

I wish "Quiet Ride, Please" was an option in the app.

Re: Can Uber ever make money?

#226

Post by IanCal »

reverend_gonzo wrote: post #188
IanCal wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Without the innovation of the Uber app, I had local services with an app before Uber, I'm sure. It's really not much of a shift from a phone call either. But then, all Uber cars are the same as private hire cans anyway here. It seems like the real innovation was being big enough to ignore the local rules. That and being able to say it's "ride sharing" with a straight face.

Wtf? It is completely different. Before Uber, you had to call dispatch, give them your location or your closest estimate of it: dispatch would then manually try to find a car that was available and send them to you. This usually took at least 30-40m, if they arrived at all. With Uber, I open the app, it looks at all available cars, finds the closest one available, and sends that car to my GPS location. Oh, and if tha…

Before Uber there was an app I could use to book a taxi. That's one of the main reasons I don't think their app was innovative.

> This usually took at least 30-40m, if they arrived at all.

Not for me, I would and still do get cars faster using other firms. Uber says they're two minutes away and they come ten minutes later.

The only reason I use Uber is I get receipts I can push to my expenses.

Re: Can Uber ever make money?

#227

Post by kelnos »

GordonS wrote: post #216
rubicon33 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Call me a snob, but Uber's criteria for what qualifies as an acceptable car has dramatically declined to the point where even Taxis are sometimes "nicer". Combine that with the fact that the drivers often don't know the neighborhood and rely exclusively on GPS (so tend to be worse drivers than a taxi). I'm left feeling like the fare - strictly from the perspective of a consumer - is actually too high.

> Combine that with the fact that the drivers often don't know the neighborhood I used to travel to Houston quite a lot. Not sure if this is representative of taxis in general in the US, but the taxi drivers never knew the neighbourhood. I couldn't say "I want to go to Acme Stuff in X district", I had to give a "Cross road" (a very US thing, that) and the driver would use satnav based on that. It did seem that a lot…

It's a mix in the US. "Career" taxi drivers that have been in an area for a long while will generally be able to get you where you want to go based on landmarks and place names. Many will ask for a cross-street and will take you there from memory. Newer drivers or drivers who cover a larger area will rely heavily on satnav.

Even then, many experienced drivers will still use satnav due to changing traffic conditions. Since there are usually several routes that can be taken, using Google Maps or the like will tell the driver what the fastest route is during that particular moment, which might change every 15 minutes.

I remember when Uber was new (black cars only), and the app didn't yet give the ability to enter your destination, the drivers were all very knowledgeable (in SF) and would be able to take me where I wanted to go based on pretty minimal information. Especially in SF, UberX and Lyft Line are full of drivers who don't live in the city, and must rely on satnav to get around. Very occasionally (1 in 100 rides) I'll end up with a driver who has lived in the city for decades and could drive me somewhere in their sleep.

Re: Can Uber ever make money?

#228

Post by ape4 »

cabaalis wrote: post #211
rubicon33 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Call me a snob, but Uber's criteria for what qualifies as an acceptable car has dramatically declined to the point where even Taxis are sometimes "nicer". Combine that with the fact that the drivers often don't know the neighborhood and rely exclusively on GPS (so tend to be worse drivers than a taxi). I'm left feeling like the fare - strictly from the perspective of a consumer - is actually too high.

> drivers often don't know the neighborhood and rely exclusively on GPS I drove for Uber about 3 years ago for a couple of months when getting my consultancy off the ground, which led to my current gig. If I had a way to tell Uber "Don't give me rides that require me to leave a given geofence--we'll all have a bad time." Then I'd have been much, much happier. Everyone wanted a ride from my suburban town to the metro…

It's odd that this still isn't available. If you just want to drive for Uber for a couple hours you don't want to be taken to the other side of town

Re: Can Uber ever make money?

#229

Post by IanCal »

seltzered_ wrote: post #193
IanCal wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Without the innovation of the Uber app, I had local services with an app before Uber, I'm sure. It's really not much of a shift from a phone call either. But then, all Uber cars are the same as private hire cans anyway here. It seems like the real innovation was being big enough to ignore the local rules. That and being able to say it's "ride sharing" with a straight face.

I'm critical of U/L, but it's ignorant to say there hasn't been any innovation. Back then, you had to know the phone number to call - I'd try to be diligent about keeping a taxi number in my contact list but it's invalid when I really need it when traveling in a different city. Trying to hail a cab during a busy holiday? Good luck with that - cab splitting existed but nowhere near as frictionless as through apps + ro…

> I'm critical of U/L, but it's ignorant to say there hasn't been any innovation.

I won't say there's none, but there was a taxi app for me before Uber that knew where I was and let me book a taxi, that wasn't innovative.

> Back then, you had to know the phone number to call -

A benefit sure, but "being big" is not an innovation.

> Trying to hail a cab during a busy holiday? Good luck with that

Here when it's busy I can't get an Uber but I can book my local service. Uber is way less reliable here.

> route-planning software.

Every uber here uses Waze.

> Waiting for the cab? Better stay put where you are since they can't see your live location.

Hah! I've repeatedly had issues where Uber cars didn't seem to know where I was, their app put me in the middle of a lake once and I kept moving about trying to figure out where the hell I could meet the taxi because their position made no sense either. They cancelled on me and I had to chase them down a street and rebook, hoping it would connect to them.

Re: Can Uber ever make money?

#230

Post by duxup »

rubicon33 wrote: post #97
Skunkleton wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As it stands the price you pay for a ride in an uber is unfairly low. Driving it even lower would be irresponsible.

Call me a snob, but Uber's criteria for what qualifies as an acceptable car has dramatically declined to the point where even Taxis are sometimes "nicer". Combine that with the fact that the drivers often don't know the neighborhood and rely exclusively on GPS (so tend to be worse drivers than a taxi). I'm left feeling like the fare - strictly from the perspective of a consumer - is actually too high.

A while back in Chicago I was picked up for Uber, in a Taxi... that also drove for the other services and was tied to a local taxi company.

Not a bad ride that one, but that guy had all his bases covered...

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