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Does the UK Think It Can Police the Internet?

theengineeringmanager.com

31–40 of 65 posts

Re: Does the UK Think It Can Police the Internet?

#31
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most comical part was the words were still spoken by an actor trying to lip sync. Which made a mockery of the intent to deny terrorists the oxygen of publicity - in every news broadcast. They didn't think that one through too far. :) > asking difficult questions like "how will this work" and "will it achieve the stated purpose" I think that's been steadily dying since the mid and later Thatcher years, and acceler…

It is a good thing that it made thugs like Martin McGuinness and Gerry Adams look ridiculous as they attempted to represent themselves as peaceful politicians rather than the terrorists they actually were.

Also true, as they pretended to know nothing of the IRA whilst being part of the leadership.

Re: Does the UK Think It Can Police the Internet?

#32
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not any more now they block the ip and use active attacks to kill proxies.

I'm in the UK with BT as my ISP. I've not had a problem accessing blocked sites.

Good to know, im on virgin and they block ip not dns.

Re: Does the UK Think It Can Police the Internet?

#33

More mundanely: Sajid Javid, the current home secretary, clearly has ambitions to lead the country. Within the purview of his ministry, he is attempting to position himself as a decisive strong-man, in contrast to the weak and ineffectual prime minister. His ability to actually reduce crime is hamstrung by years of austerity, which have led to a substantial reduction in the number of police officers and other law enf…

The funny thing is Theresa May did exactly the same thing as Home Secretary. Lots of blustery policy about cracking down on the internet with talk of heavy-handed censorship. Creating the 'hostile environment' for migrants that culminated in the Windrush scandal.

Re: Does the UK Think It Can Police the Internet?

#34
post #14

>The ambitions of the UK government are bold. They want the UK “to be the safest place in the world to go online, and the best place to start and grow a digital business.” Pick one.

Why do they have to be mutually exclusive? Why would safety be contrary to business opportunity? If anything, I would say that users' safety should be present in any legally viable business endeavor. Edit: I want to clarify that I'm not in favor of surveillance or opaque mechanisms run by any State.

The costs of course - they need something to enforce the safety and that isn't free. And "should be" isn't worth a hill of beans unless it actually gives a competitive advantage like users trusting them more for it.

Of course "safety" out of a politician's mouth is usually an excuse for a power grab. It is also abused in such a way that proving that the mayor is a serial killing cannibal, that the police knew about this and did nothing about it is a threat to public safety because it could incite a riot. However the cannibal mayor is not.

Re: Does the UK Think It Can Police the Internet?

#35
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most comical part was the words were still spoken by an actor trying to lip sync. Which made a mockery of the intent to deny terrorists the oxygen of publicity - in every news broadcast. They didn't think that one through too far. :) > asking difficult questions like "how will this work" and "will it achieve the stated purpose" I think that's been steadily dying since the mid and later Thatcher years, and acceler…

It is a good thing that it made thugs like Martin McGuinness and Gerry Adams look ridiculous as they attempted to represent themselves as peaceful politicians rather than the terrorists they actually were.

maybe but they were instrumental in making the lasting peace.

Re: Does the UK Think It Can Police the Internet?

#36
post #6

I'm really conflicted at this. I do not want the internet to be censored, but at the same time, I think that big internet companies are making the world worse through inaction. Even if a user or $/yr minimum is implemented in law, then what happens as distributed and federated technology becomes more common? What does Mastadon or Scuttlebutt count as?

> What does Mastadon or Scuttlebutt count as? I think they are currently illegal because of various copyright and data protection laws in the UK.

Do you have any references for that?

I am not an expert but from my perspective I don't see why these would be illegal due to copyright or data protection laws in the UK?

Re: Does the UK Think It Can Police the Internet?

#37
post #14

>The ambitions of the UK government are bold. They want the UK “to be the safest place in the world to go online, and the best place to start and grow a digital business.” Pick one.

Why do they have to be mutually exclusive? Why would safety be contrary to business opportunity? If anything, I would say that users' safety should be present in any legally viable business endeavor. Edit: I want to clarify that I'm not in favor of surveillance or opaque mechanisms run by any State.

If you think of a "digital business" as one that involves accepting user content, then being forced to identify those users and moderate their output could be a disadvantage compared to competitors in more 'liberal' (i.e. less regulated) regimes - if only due to the increased operational overhead.

OTOH, this is probably a small percentage of what most people think of as digital businesses, and might be seen as a price worth paying.

Re: Does the UK Think It Can Police the Internet?

#38

More mundanely: Sajid Javid, the current home secretary, clearly has ambitions to lead the country. Within the purview of his ministry, he is attempting to position himself as a decisive strong-man, in contrast to the weak and ineffectual prime minister. His ability to actually reduce crime is hamstrung by years of austerity, which have led to a substantial reduction in the number of police officers and other law enf…

Why they can't just implement the measures that seem to have worked in Scotland to address knife crime seems a mystery - NIH at a political level? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-45572691

Absolutely NIH. Plus the longstanding problems the Met has with race relations, and the usual underfunded police, schools and social services.

Re: Does the UK Think It Can Police the Internet?

#39
post #14

>The ambitions of the UK government are bold. They want the UK “to be the safest place in the world to go online, and the best place to start and grow a digital business.” Pick one.

Why do they have to be mutually exclusive? Why would safety be contrary to business opportunity? If anything, I would say that users' safety should be present in any legally viable business endeavor. Edit: I want to clarify that I'm not in favor of surveillance or opaque mechanisms run by any State.

Although in principle “safe” is a necessary precondition of most businesses, it’s being used in this case to mean “censorship of categories which have been poorly defined by people who think they’re obvious”.

As I grew up outside the USA and never lived in a culture of “freedom of speech is an inalienable right” (even after it became a right in the UK in 1998), I’ve always been comfortable with the principle of censorship. However, I do also understand the inherent danger of censorship, and that it makes certain social and political movements totally impossible. For example, one of the examples given in this story is that moderators are exposed to bestiality — an act which was legal until a few years ago in Germany when a moral panic about animal brothels caused the law to change. Just like a Bayesian trap, when it became illegal, any evidence that it shouldn’t be illegal automatically got zero credence and was no longer able to change the average person’s beliefs (if you are willing to continue to update your beliefs about that, good for you, but the ability is uncommon).

Now, I’m not going to argue for any particular prohibition policy positions on that or any other topic, but just the fact that “harm” isn’t defined in the UK proposal means that the censorship they call for is vulnerable to very large changes in short periods, and the nature of censorship means it’s likely to ratchet up rather than stay at any particular level. Not so much a “slippery slope”, more of a drunk walk/hill climber.

Of course, as I said before, I’m not a free-speech absolutist. I’d be very happy if we start with the basics like “don’t make death threats” and “take steps to prevent your users making death threats”. I just want it done properly, and one thing most people can agree on these days is that the UK government isn’t capable of doing anything properly right now.

Re: Does the UK Think It Can Police the Internet?

#40
post #20

The lesson of Brexit is that all attempts at asking difficult questions like "how will this work" and "will it achieve the stated purpose" have been abandoned, and we're governed by pure short-term sloganeering. But the restriction of free speech in the UK in the name of anti-terrorism has a long history. I'm old enough to remember when the Sinn Fein MPs were prohibited from speaking on television: https://en.wikiped…

The most comical part was the words were still spoken by an actor trying to lip sync. Which made a mockery of the intent to deny terrorists the oxygen of publicity - in every news broadcast. They didn't think that one through too far. :) > asking difficult questions like "how will this work" and "will it achieve the stated purpose" I think that's been steadily dying since the mid and later Thatcher years, and acceler…

I would probably date the exact collapse to the singularity of UK politics, the Iraq War, where failure to ask those two questions got an awful lot of people killed. But the years before were hardly free of gimmicks.
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