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Airlines eye crueler ways of making passengers miserable

latimes.com

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Re: Airlines eye crueler ways of making passengers miserable

#81

Post by ghaff »

TheCondor wrote: post #68
CompelTechnic wrote: post #3

For short flights, I do not mind the development of "standing seats." Airline margins will remain razor thin and the savings will be passed to the subset of customers who choose to be more cramped. There WILL continue to be "premium economy" or similar for those who choose it, that is undoubtable. If the price sensitivity tradeoff of customers ultimately dictates that these standing seats do not gain adoption, I woul…

We need hyperloop to work and national high speed rail to offer alternatives and competition. I do a 2 hour flight, about 1000 miles for work once or twice a quarter, I’d seriously consider a 4-6 hour train ride if the experience was better. Rather than paying extra to carry my bag on, I wouldn’t mind paying extra for a proper meal and some comfortable work space. And if they streamlined the security process the time…

Do you have TSA Pre? Security normally takes me about 5-10 minutes. I do prefer the experience taking the train but there's only about one destination a few hundred miles away where it makes sense.

Re: Airlines eye crueler ways of making passengers miserable

#82

Post by derekp7 »

rootusrootus wrote: post #36
tyingq wrote: post #8

The bicycle like standing seat does look awful. Reclining, though, is a silly feature on coach airline seats. At best, you temporarily get more room at the expense of the person behind you. Until the person in front of you reclines. Reclining seats when the seat pitch is so tight is just dumb. Oh, and if you get the paywall: http://archive.is/vqTNf

WRT reclining, I disagree. The seats need to be upright enough so that emergency egress is easy, but that runs contrary to what is comfortable for many people. I don't need much recline, but allowing the seat to move back an inch or two (as measured at the top) makes a huge difference in posture.

I'd like to see reclining seats keep the top stationary, but move the bottom forward. That way when you recline you are only taking away your own space.

Re: Airlines eye crueler ways of making passengers miserable

#83

Post by mikybee93 »

rootusrootus wrote: post #62
mikybee93 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That isn't what has happened historically, in this market or in others. I don't know why so many people seem to expect this to happen now. If Delta decides to implement these seats and then charge 2x as much for the current seats, United will choose not to and nobody will fly Delta unless they absolutely have to. Competition keeps this sort of thing from happening.

Except that's exactly what's been happening over the years. It might be so abrupt in this case that it would fail just because the marketing would be too easy. But airlines have been incrementally decreasing seat pitch for a long time and then charging a significant amount for what used to be normal.

No it hasn't. Airline prices have trended downwards over time.

Re: Airlines eye crueler ways of making passengers miserable

#84

Post by ghaff »

Y0s wrote: post #74
lizknope wrote: post #69

People want cheap flights. Some people want more comfortable flights and are willing to pay. I fly about 3 times a year domestically in the United States and Delta, American, and United all have a "Comfort or Economy Plus" section with extra legroom. It costs between $50-200 per flight extra but also includes boarding right after first class before everyone else. For me it is totally worth it. I don't need first clas…

I have to fly for university work. They can only purchase economy seats. Either I pay personally out of pocket or suffer (I'm 6'4"). I don't quite fly enough, and to diverse international destinations on partner airlines, that status upgrades are rare.

Status upgrades are pretty rare until you get to about 100K miles or so per year--and, even then, far from universal and free.

Re: Airlines eye crueler ways of making passengers miserable

#85

Post by Someone1234 »

mikybee93 wrote: post #58
rootusrootus wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that what will actually happen is this new option will become default, and the old cattle class will now be an upgrade, and it won't cost what it does now, it will be 2x as much. There must be some MBA that figured out that someone who will pay a little extra for comfort will probably pay 2-3x as much if you push.

That isn't what has happened historically, in this market or in others. I don't know why so many people seem to expect this to happen now. If Delta decides to implement these seats and then charge 2x as much for the current seats, United will choose not to and nobody will fly Delta unless they absolutely have to. Competition keeps this sort of thing from happening.

This already happened in aircraft seating. "Premium Economy" is what Economy used to be, they took away space (seat pitch/width) and then sold it back to you as a premium service at a premium price.

Re: Airlines eye crueler ways of making passengers miserable

#87

Post by matthewaveryusa »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #40

Some of us barely fit into a jet cabin at all now! Anything over maybe 5'10" and you have to duck. I'm 6'4". Imagine standing for an hour with your neck torqued because the headroom is too little. In addition the new Delta legroom of 23" (including the depth of the seat!) will make it impossible for me to sit down. My knee is 25" from the seat (I just measured it). With existing 29" 'seat pitch' cabins, I have to spl…

Yeah, I always argue that planes are just buses with wings for me and I don't understand the whole 'seat size thing'.

But I'm 5'10 with a healthy BMI. It's interesting that the airlines have effectively made height a disability, and what sort of responsibilities airlines have towards making their flights accessible.

Re: Airlines eye crueler ways of making passengers miserable

#88

Post by yaakushi »

crankylinuxuser wrote: post #7

Gee golly! You mean to tell me capitalists are trying to extract more money by increasing capacity (and thus increasing misery)? Please say it isn't so! /news at 11

Not sure why you're being downvoted. In Brazil, we used to be able to dispatch one luggage volume without cost until the law changed and the airlines were allowed to charge extra fees for the right to check in luggage. The decision was supposed to give us cheaper tickets and what not, but, guess what, ticket prices never dropped even for the cheapest options where you have no rights to any luggage besides a small carry-on baggage, but instead, those prices only increased in the last few years! [1]

Airlines are a prime example of why the so called free-market can be a terrible thing for the consumer.

Edit: Oh, not to mention just how abusive the check-in fees for luggage are and how they wildly increase year after year.

[1] https://todosabordo.blogosfera.uol.com.br/2018/06/01/1-ano-d... (Title roughly translates to "Ticket prices increases by 6% after luggage check-in fees instead of falling like promised...")

Re: Airlines eye crueler ways of making passengers miserable

#89

Post by cimmanom »

rootusrootus wrote: post #36
tyingq wrote: post #8

The bicycle like standing seat does look awful. Reclining, though, is a silly feature on coach airline seats. At best, you temporarily get more room at the expense of the person behind you. Until the person in front of you reclines. Reclining seats when the seat pitch is so tight is just dumb. Oh, and if you get the paywall: http://archive.is/vqTNf

WRT reclining, I disagree. The seats need to be upright enough so that emergency egress is easy, but that runs contrary to what is comfortable for many people. I don't need much recline, but allowing the seat to move back an inch or two (as measured at the top) makes a huge difference in posture.

Not having the top of the seat angled forward to push your head into a weird position would go a long way towards fixing that without reclining.

Re: Airlines eye crueler ways of making passengers miserable

#90

Post by mLuby »

rhexs wrote: post #13

Currently flights effectively have no room left anymore -- I have absolutely no idea why the seats on short-haul flights have the ability to recline. It's impossible to use a 15 inch laptop if the person in front of you moves their seat back. If Delta removes that ability, I'll start flying with them exclusively. Have back problems? Feel free to pay more to sit in first/economy plus/whatever. I'd obviously also suppo…

>Have back problems? Feel free to pay more to sit in first/economy plus/whatever.

This line of thinking deserves reflection. Too fat/tall/disabled/female†? Pay more for this condition you probably didn't choose and can't easily "remedy." And if you're lucky enough to not need "extras" to achieve baseline dignity and comfort, you'll certainly have family members who do.

†Granted, this is how US healthcare works…

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