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Airlines eye crueler ways of making passengers miserable

latimes.com

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Re: Airlines eye crueler ways of making passengers miserable

#71

Post by Someone1234 »

rootusrootus wrote: post #36
tyingq wrote: post #8

The bicycle like standing seat does look awful. Reclining, though, is a silly feature on coach airline seats. At best, you temporarily get more room at the expense of the person behind you. Until the person in front of you reclines. Reclining seats when the seat pitch is so tight is just dumb. Oh, and if you get the paywall: http://archive.is/vqTNf

WRT reclining, I disagree. The seats need to be upright enough so that emergency egress is easy, but that runs contrary to what is comfortable for many people. I don't need much recline, but allowing the seat to move back an inch or two (as measured at the top) makes a huge difference in posture.

Delta's seats still do. They've just reduced the recline, not eliminated it.

Re: Airlines eye crueler ways of making passengers miserable

#72

Post by Someone1234 »

gvurrdon wrote: post #67
moftz wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My head just barely remains upright whenever I don't use the reclining function. I always feel bad invading the space of the person behind me, especially when it's a tall person who is already at the limit for room. Although I'll lean back all day long when it's a child behind me.

Being such a tall person, your concern is appreciated. In economy class my knees touch the back of the seat in front even before it reclines.

Ditto. If the person reclines I'm literally pinned between their seat-back and my seat-front. I take painkillers for flying because I cannot wave my magic wand and spend 6x as much for higher class.

Re: Airlines eye crueler ways of making passengers miserable

#74

Post by Y0s »

lizknope wrote: post #69

People want cheap flights. Some people want more comfortable flights and are willing to pay. I fly about 3 times a year domestically in the United States and Delta, American, and United all have a "Comfort or Economy Plus" section with extra legroom. It costs between $50-200 per flight extra but also includes boarding right after first class before everyone else. For me it is totally worth it. I don't need first clas…

I have to fly for university work. They can only purchase economy seats. Either I pay personally out of pocket or suffer (I'm 6'4"). I don't quite fly enough, and to diverse international destinations on partner airlines, that status upgrades are rare.

Re: Airlines eye crueler ways of making passengers miserable

#75

Post by maxsilver »

mikybee93 wrote: post #33
kareemm wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You sound like an optimist. My take is that airlines are adding a worse option for the price they currently charge, which lets them charge more for the current options.

But in order for that to work, every single airline would have to do that together, holding hands. Because there are multiple airlines, a single airline could choose not to install them and keep their current prices for seats and outcompete those who do install these. I mean, that's basic economics of competition.

> Because there are multiple airlines

Where is this? In much of the US, there are only two airlines. Some lucky Americans might get to pick from three or four airlines. Airlines in the US are not really competitive in any meaningful way - https://www.economist.com/leaders/2017/04/22/a-lack-of-compe...

All American Airlines has to do is announce they're eliminating seats, and Delta and United would probably match them within 3 to 6 months.

Re: Airlines eye crueler ways of making passengers miserable

#76

Post by tluyben2 »

rhexs wrote: post #13

Currently flights effectively have no room left anymore -- I have absolutely no idea why the seats on short-haul flights have the ability to recline. It's impossible to use a 15 inch laptop if the person in front of you moves their seat back. If Delta removes that ability, I'll start flying with them exclusively. Have back problems? Feel free to pay more to sit in first/economy plus/whatever. I'd obviously also suppo…

In most planes people cannot move their chair back when I sit behind them; my legs block them from doing so and that makes them angry often. So agreed; prevent the recline on short flights.

For long haul economy I often cannot sit normally and usually they put me somewhere better except if it is a very full flight. Then it is absolute suffering. My last 10 hr flight was in a seat that was cramped against some divider screen and because of that the table was much smaller and I could physically not unfold it so it was impossible to eat or drink without spilling and it was too cramped to sleep. The staff absolutely did not care. It is bad news if you have to fly long haul on a budget...

Re: Airlines eye crueler ways of making passengers miserable

#77

Post by JoeAltmaier »

swarnie_ wrote: post #50
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #40

Some of us barely fit into a jet cabin at all now! Anything over maybe 5'10" and you have to duck. I'm 6'4". Imagine standing for an hour with your neck torqued because the headroom is too little. In addition the new Delta legroom of 23" (including the depth of the seat!) will make it impossible for me to sit down. My knee is 25" from the seat (I just measured it). With existing 29" 'seat pitch' cabins, I have to spl…

Do you even have a functioning passenger train network? I've heard terrible things.

I can get to maybe two destinations from Iowa on Amtrak. Takes a couple of days to get to either coast. And no cheaper than by air.

Re: Airlines eye crueler ways of making passengers miserable

#78

Post by cimmanom »

mikybee93 wrote: post #19
cimmanom wrote: post #9

That’ll be fun when you spend 3 hours on the tarmac before your “short haul” flight due to airport congestion or weather conditions. Edited to add: what about people with disabilities? Can elderly people no longer fly? Or even if they have a few sitting seats to comply with disability regulations, what happens if you sprain your ankle at some point between booking your flight and boarding?

I don't think anyone suggested that all seats are going to be replaced by these.

Sure, but if you have to pay a premium for regular seats just because you have a disability, that seems like a problem. And the injury scenario could also be extremely problematic. What if there are no sitting seats left, or you could afford the cattle class seat but not the business class seat?

If my grandmother needs to fly, do we have to upgrade both her seat and someone else’s in the family to something twice as expensive so someone can help her with the various things she can’t do for herself any more? Or upgrade the whole family if we want to sit together?

Current cattle class seats aren’t comfortable. But they’re accommodating to the elderly and people with disabilities or injuries. If some seat shuffling is required to accommodate a special case it’s usually just shifting people between aisle and non-aisle seats, not downgrading them to standing seats so someone else can sit.

Re: Airlines eye crueler ways of making passengers miserable

#79

Post by leetcrew »

swarnie_ wrote: post #50
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #40

Some of us barely fit into a jet cabin at all now! Anything over maybe 5'10" and you have to duck. I'm 6'4". Imagine standing for an hour with your neck torqued because the headroom is too little. In addition the new Delta legroom of 23" (including the depth of the seat!) will make it impossible for me to sit down. My knee is 25" from the seat (I just measured it). With existing 29" 'seat pitch' cabins, I have to spl…

Do you even have a functioning passenger train network? I've heard terrible things.

the train network is great! if you live in DC, NYC, or Boston, you can easily get to any other of those three cities!

...

Re: Airlines eye crueler ways of making passengers miserable

#80

Post by Someone1234 »

slater wrote: post #21

So is there, then, a market for an airline that offers substantially more legroom and larger seats (biz-class-size for the entire plane?) for a slight increase in price? Aforementioned Delta Airlines had $1.3bn in PROFITS last year, so not sure about razor-thin margins.

Flight comparison sites don't show any information about comfort, so passengers cannot pick it.

Meaning all they'll see is "Ultracheap: $50" Vs. "ComfortAir: $80" and pick the $50 option because that's all the information they're given.

You want to sell a nicer class of service, you need to change the entire industry to communicate it.

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