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Airlines eye crueler ways of making passengers miserable

latimes.com

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Re: Airlines eye crueler ways of making passengers miserable

#41

Post by moate »

forinti wrote: post #11

There will, inevitably, be people who simply can't use these seats. If you have a bad knee, you might not be able to bend it. If you are old and have a bad back you might not be able to stay in a such a seat for long. This is going to cause trouble.

I'm sure there's going to be some sort of language at ticket purchase that you will be liable for any problems because you chose to stand the whole time. Or, if the flight maybe they offer you the option to purchase an upgrade to one of the unbooked chairs.

Re: Airlines eye crueler ways of making passengers miserable

#42

Post by MiddleEndian »

mrerrormessage wrote: post #22

Am I the only one who thinks standing for shorter flights of < 3 hours would be healthier and more comfortable? I work regularly at a standing desk, sitting for too long makes me feel lethargic and often causes headaches for me (it's much easier to have good posture, neck and back alignment when standing). For longer flights, people need a seat, but for shorter flights I would gladly pay the same price to be able to…

When I fly I spend much of my time asleep. I make (the same) sub-2 hour flights annually and I would hate to have to stay awake for them.

Re: Airlines eye crueler ways of making passengers miserable

#43

Post by duiker101 »

PaulHoule wrote: post #10
CompelTechnic wrote: post #3

For short flights, I do not mind the development of "standing seats." Airline margins will remain razor thin and the savings will be passed to the subset of customers who choose to be more cramped. There WILL continue to be "premium economy" or similar for those who choose it, that is undoubtable. If the price sensitivity tradeoff of customers ultimately dictates that these standing seats do not gain adoption, I woul…

I don't believe that "customers want cheap flights more than they want comfort". Really customers have about as much choice in the comfort of a flight as they do in the cost of health care services. For years it has been "pay 4 times as much as economy or suffer", in the last ten years they've introduced "basic economy" which at least is realistic. I might rather fly in a widebody on a domestic flight but I don't get…

Given the option, I will rarely go with a more expensive option if I know I can stand the cheapest. Standing to get 50%? hell yeah.

Re: Airlines eye crueler ways of making passengers miserable

#44

Post by leetcrew »

brotoss wrote: post #18
CompelTechnic wrote: post #3

For short flights, I do not mind the development of "standing seats." Airline margins will remain razor thin and the savings will be passed to the subset of customers who choose to be more cramped. There WILL continue to be "premium economy" or similar for those who choose it, that is undoubtable. If the price sensitivity tradeoff of customers ultimately dictates that these standing seats do not gain adoption, I woul…

Delta's NET income for 2018 was $3.95 billion dollars

with revenue in the same year of $44b, this is pretty much the average profit margin for an american business. I'm not sure which direction you're trying to argue here.

Re: Airlines eye crueler ways of making passengers miserable

#45

Post by rootusrootus »

slater wrote: post #21

So is there, then, a market for an airline that offers substantially more legroom and larger seats (biz-class-size for the entire plane?) for a slight increase in price? Aforementioned Delta Airlines had $1.3bn in PROFITS last year, so not sure about razor-thin margins.

I've never seen it, but I've long thought it would be interesting to see an airline campaign on such a feature. The problem now is that cattle class is cheap, and the next step up is a small increment in comfort but twice the cost.

Re: Airlines eye crueler ways of making passengers miserable

#46

Post by YUMad »

mhluongo wrote: post #25
mrerrormessage wrote: post #22

Am I the only one who thinks standing for shorter flights of < 3 hours would be healthier and more comfortable? I work regularly at a standing desk, sitting for too long makes me feel lethargic and often causes headaches for me (it's much easier to have good posture, neck and back alignment when standing). For longer flights, people need a seat, but for shorter flights I would gladly pay the same price to be able to…

For folks with vascular issues, standing while flying can be more dangerous (increased vascular load). Movement rather than standing or sitting still is the way to go.

Just put some steppers under them lol

Re: Airlines eye crueler ways of making passengers miserable

#47

Post by PaulHoule »

brutus1213 wrote: post #31
mlrtime wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People vote with their dollars, many legs have multiple options and multiple seat options. Almost everyone goes with the cheapest option. I've flow from NYC to Chicago $90 round trip. It's incredible how inexpensive flying as become.

This is a naive comment. The airline industry is hardly competitive. You do realize the issue is the limits on gates. Please visit Canada and our shitty airline and telecom monopoly/oligopoly to understand how airlines can lower service, make money and pass almost nothing back to customers.

What I can say is that if you to any other country, developed or not, the flying experience seems to be better than the US. For instance:

* not getting groped by the T.S.A.

* not having to book a flight a month in advance to get a good price

* paying less

* being treated like a human being

Re: Airlines eye crueler ways of making passengers miserable

#48

Post by xienze »

mikybee93 wrote: post #38
xienze wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Airlines are adding another option that is cheaper. How is that a bad thing? No, they’re going to make this the new default setting. The regular crappy seat you enjoy today will become the “economy premium” option and cost more. > If I don't want the cheaper option, another airline will offer me a more comfortable one and I'll pay for it. Assuming they go where you’re going in the timeframe you’re expecting. And as…

>And assuming they don’t just move in lock-step with their other competitors and make these new seats the default Well then they wouldn't be competitors, would they? That's another problem. Any single airline could disrupt the system by choosing not to install these and to keep their prices the same. Or choosing to install these and lower their prices. Which are two good things for consumers. Like I replied above, th…

Show me the airline today that has superior seats to all the others that charges the same amount. It’s not a coincidence that seating has gotten crappier across the board.

Re: Airlines eye crueler ways of making passengers miserable

#49

Post by rootusrootus »

mikybee93 wrote: post #15

This makes no sense to me. Airlines are adding another option that is cheaper. How is that a bad thing? If I don't want the cheaper option, another airline will offer me a more comfortable one and I'll pay for it. What is there to be upset about here?

The problem is that what will actually happen is this new option will become default, and the old cattle class will now be an upgrade, and it won't cost what it does now, it will be 2x as much. There must be some MBA that figured out that someone who will pay a little extra for comfort will probably pay 2-3x as much if you push.

Re: Airlines eye crueler ways of making passengers miserable

#50

Post by swarnie_ »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #40

Some of us barely fit into a jet cabin at all now! Anything over maybe 5'10" and you have to duck. I'm 6'4". Imagine standing for an hour with your neck torqued because the headroom is too little. In addition the new Delta legroom of 23" (including the depth of the seat!) will make it impossible for me to sit down. My knee is 25" from the seat (I just measured it). With existing 29" 'seat pitch' cabins, I have to spl…

Do you even have a functioning passenger train network? I've heard terrible things.
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