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Bullshitters: Who Are They and What Do We Know about Their Lives? [pdf]

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Re: Bullshitters: Who Are They and What Do We Know about Their Lives? [pdf]

#241

Post by thisrod »

minikites wrote: post #204
pintxo wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you believe a Phd student should risk questioning his supervisor? Which could likely end a planned career in science right there?

That's a better point, but the student still couldn't be expelled, which is the workplace equivalent.

Academia works the other way. The default is that you're fired, when your PhD scholarship/postdoc/research grant runs out. To keep your job, you have to get rehired every few years.

Some people have tenure, but some people win lotteries too.

The hiring process appears objective, what have you published and so on, but in reality it's set up for the bosses to game. When there's a letter to Nature, for example, it's very much up to the boss as to which student gets to be first author.

Re: Bullshitters: Who Are They and What Do We Know about Their Lives? [pdf]

#243

Post by closeparen »

onemoresoop wrote: post #77
stelfer wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The realization that I came to was that by speaking up I was usually asking a question that many people were not asking; by providing a strong opinion it would help to catalyze deliberate action. If you stay silent we'll never get anything really done.

There are even bullshit questions, ones that give the appearance that one has an idea or an insight when in fact they end up convolution the path to a solution that eventually emerges naturally...

“Will this scale?”

https://thecooperreview.com/10-tricks-appear-smart-meetings/

Re: Bullshitters: Who Are They and What Do We Know about Their Lives? [pdf]

#244

Post by akulbe »

I think there's something missing in this discussion.

Do you know everything before you start $JOB? Do you have absolutely every last skill required to get the job done?

I can only speak for myself here. I know I haven't.

There have been cases where I only checked half the boxes for a job I was interviewing for.

I'm certainly not the only one that's been in such a scenario.

Impostor syndrome runs strong and screams loud in my ears. I own it. I live with it.

If I (or anyone else for that matter) were to only apply to jobs or pick up tasks where I knew everything required, I suspect I and a lot of other people wouldn't be doing much.

Does that make me a bullshitter? Where does one cross the line from authentic to bullshitter?

I'm not going to stop doing hard things, things I don't know everything about, just because I'm afraid of what someone will think of me. I don't recommend anyone take that approach.

Do hard things. Sell yourself. Be confident. And I'm speaking to myself, as well as to anyone else who cares to listen.

Re: Bullshitters: Who Are They and What Do We Know about Their Lives? [pdf]

#245

Post by mg794613 »

cr0sh wrote: post #153
mg794613 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We had an interviewee (is that a word?) today who said that he didn't know and to me that was a reason to hire him.

I'd say quite possibly so...if he also followed that up with "...but I could find out." (or something similar). Saying "I don't know" is one thing - it's good to admit one's lack of knowledge. Being able to then follow it up with the will to expand their knowledge - that is valuable IMHO.

Yes it was clear that he acquired his other knowledge through hard work and interest.

Re: Bullshitters: Who Are They and What Do We Know about Their Lives? [pdf]

#246

Post by mg794613 »

duiker101 wrote: post #91
mg794613 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We had an interviewee (is that a word?) today who said that he didn't know and to me that was a reason to hire him.

Maybe it is a word, but I think candidate is a more generally accepted term

Ah thank you, I know that word and now I have no idea why I made it difficult for myself :D

Re: Bullshitters: Who Are They and What Do We Know about Their Lives? [pdf]

#247

Post by speedplane »

mg794613 wrote: post #69
Reedx wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I don't know" is such an underappreciated phrase (followed with action to remedy that).

We had an interviewee (is that a word?) today who said that he didn't know and to me that was a reason to hire him.

> We had an interviewee (is that a word?) today who said that he didn't know and to me that was a reason to hire him.

I've seen this in interviews too, but my experience on this response is a bit mixed. I appreciate the honesty, but saying you don't know is a dead-end to solving the problem. A better response would be "I don't know X, but it sounds similar to Y which I solved by ...". Even if X and Y are not closely related, it at least shows they have the ability to make these mental connections.

Re: Bullshitters: Who Are They and What Do We Know about Their Lives? [pdf]

#248

Post by SimonPStevens »

mgkimsal wrote: post #66
SimonPStevens wrote: post #19

I consider myself to be an anti-bullshitter. I once said in a job interview that I knew nothing about the technology they were hiring for, but I was pretty sure I could take a decent stab at it. I was telling the truth. I got the job.

could be any of a number of reasons (or combination thereof) why you got that job. * comparison to other candidates * truthfulness/honesty * track record * personality At some point, the "I know nothing about this" really isn't all that true, especially for senior dev folks. I'm not sure there's much tech I couldn't say "I know nothing about X", because I understand fundamentals. I don't know much about a lot of tech…

Yeah, I am shortening the story. The interview lasted longer than that one sentance and we discussed the technology. I was aware of a lot of the principles behind it (and I had read up before the interview), I had just never used it. Like you say, for senior people that's probably the case with a lot of tech.

Re: Bullshitters: Who Are They and What Do We Know about Their Lives? [pdf]

#249

Post by koonsolo »

ZebZ wrote: post #137
tru3_power wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude I struggle with this everyday. When I first started off in my career I was so nervous to express any technical ideas or questions in front of other people because I thought I was stupid- as I started progressing in my career I learned that a lot of the people I encountered at work who were ultra confident (and probably attributed to my tech self-consciousness) actually knew way less than I thought. I still don’t…

When you are young, you think adults have it all figured out. When you become an adult yourself, you realize a good chunk of people are straight winging it and, in many cases, entire companies are winging it all together without fully realizing it.

I would like to add something to this:

If a person or a company is lucky in some way, they will credit it to their own competence, thinking they figured it out. I know I have done this several times in the past.

Re: Bullshitters: Who Are They and What Do We Know about Their Lives? [pdf]

#250

Post by brohee »

d883kd8 wrote: post #218
will_brown wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The notion of bullshitters needs to be brought to the front of our industry's consciousness The industry (tech, startups, VC money) do bring bullshit to the front of the industry consciousness. I’ve never seen another industry push and promote “fake it till you make it” so hard. Democratizing this...disrupting that...we respect your privacy and data...DAO/code is law...Self driving cars...uber is creating good jobs.…

How tf is Fyre Fest on the tech industry, that was 100% entertainment and hospitality.

Completely fueled by Instagram tho. It's on the tech industry the same way Trump election is on Facebook.
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