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Inflammation might be the root of preventable disease

harvardmagazine.com

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Re: Inflammation might be the root of preventable disease

#201

Post by cududa »

RobertRoberts wrote: post #78
artemisyna wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what the other poster is saying that the bi-products of the inflammation response in themselves can also cause a problem. Yes, the obesity is probably the "cause" in the first place, but telling a person to go on a weight loss diet is going to be a bit late if that's not going to save them before the inflammation kills them. If you've got 2 or 3 different things killing you at once, you're gonna have to deal…

While I don't disagree with the concept of prioritization, that's not the same as cause and effect. Inflammation is an effect that _can_ cause other problems. But as far as I know, inflammation is a symptom of other problems, not a cause in and of itself.

Your imunorespknse to a modern diet is one example of what triggers a cycle of inflammation. The diet isn’t necessarily good for you, but isn’t inherently bad. A 70,000 year old metabolism treats food the same way it did 70,000 years ago - turning much of the food into fat and surging you with insulin. This is what causes the inflammation. Your body isn’t in an era of scarcity - this response isn’t needed, nor is the subsequent inflammation

Re: Inflammation might be the root of preventable disease

#202

Post by rhizome »

perl4ever wrote: post #38
rhizome wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a bit concerned that the comments here are so credulous. "Inflammation" has been part of the woo-woo arsenal of certain corners of the health and wellness community for at least a couple of decades, and which I wouldn't be surprised if it supplies a not-insignificant number of the anti-vax adherents. It's that specious.

That sounds like "Hitler was a vegetarian, hence vegans are Nazis" logic.

It isn't. If it were instead, "vegans talk about Hitler all the time, so..." then it would be an apt analogy.

Re: Inflammation might be the root of preventable disease

#203

Post by skookumchuck »

bandushrew wrote: post #145
skookumchuck wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Profits are what drives innovation in pharmaceuticals.

That is a truism, right? Currently in the US we have private pharmaceutical companies driven by a profit motive, so profits are what drives their innovation. Setup a different system, and other motivations will drive their innovation, right? Unless your claim is that innovation can only EVER be driven by profit?

The US leads the world in pharmaceutical innovation. Hepatitis C cure, for example. Treatment for rheumatoid arthritis (Enbrel), for another.

Socialist funded research is driven by politics, not maximizing the benefit to the maximum number of people.

Note that a lot of university research is funded by corporations.

I await your list of medical advances from the USSR.

Re: Inflammation might be the root of preventable disease

#204

Post by skookumchuck »

Swenrekcah wrote: post #160
fastball wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thing the argument is more along the lines of: 1. Observed value drives innovation. 2. Profit / profit-motive is one of the most straightforward / most efficient means we have to observe value.

You’re probably right and my counter argument would be: 1. Human [curiosity, desire, necessity] drives innovation. 2. Profit mandate suppresses most of those innovations by promoting the few money making ideas (however beneficial or harmful they may be).

Curiosity does not provide funding in the quantities needed. Nor does it allocate resources towards maximizing the benefit to the maximum number of people.

Re: Inflammation might be the root of preventable disease

#205

Post by skookumchuck »

saiya-jin wrote: post #152
skookumchuck wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Profits are what drives innovation in pharmaceuticals.

Yes but it also skews the incentives. The cure for diabetes has little meaning to pharmas. They want to keep people alive but paying for rest of their lives. That's how money shape commercial research

> The cure for diabetes has little meaning to pharmas

1. ABC develops an effective treatment for diabetes, but you have to take it for life.

2. DEF develops a cure for diabetes.

Which one do you think is going to make more money? The only way ABC can make money is if a cure cannot be developed, or ABC somehow convinced the government to ban DEF's cure.

Your theory reminds me of the 1970s when everyone was sure that 100 mpg carburetors existed but the oil companies bought up all the patents for it so they could sell more gas.

Re: Inflammation might be the root of preventable disease

#206

Post by Swenrekcah »

skookumchuck wrote: post #204
Swenrekcah wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re probably right and my counter argument would be: 1. Human [curiosity, desire, necessity] drives innovation. 2. Profit mandate suppresses most of those innovations by promoting the few money making ideas (however beneficial or harmful they may be).

Curiosity does not provide funding in the quantities needed. Nor does it allocate resources towards maximizing the benefit to the maximum number of people.

But neither does profit motive. Is facebook maximizing the benefit of their users? It’s more like maximizing benefits to the minimum amount of people at the expense of the maximum number of people.

Re: Inflammation might be the root of preventable disease

#207

Post by skookumchuck »

sametmax wrote: post #141
skookumchuck wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Profits are what drives innovation in pharmaceuticals.

Profit didn't get us vaccine against rabies or acetylsalicylic acid. Researchers did, and we have universities for that. So there are alternatives, and probably others we didn't think about.

It was profit-seeking Bayer that found a way to make aspirin in an industrial process and put it in wide use.

"In 1897, scientists at the drug and dye firm Bayer began investigating acetylsalicylic acid as a less-irritating replacement for standard common salicylate medicines, and identified a new way to synthesize it.[2]:69–75 By 1899, Bayer had dubbed this drug Aspirin and was selling it around the world."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_aspirin

Re: Inflammation might be the root of preventable disease

#208

Post by Swenrekcah »

fastball wrote: post #198
Swenrekcah wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re probably right and my counter argument would be: 1. Human [curiosity, desire, necessity] drives innovation. 2. Profit mandate suppresses most of those innovations by promoting the few money making ideas (however beneficial or harmful they may be).

I think the issue with that response is that [curiosity, desire, necessity] are all just specific versions of "observed value" which you are then applying to oneself. Sure, you'll have a lot of innovation if everyone is trying to satisfy their own curiosity, desire, or necessity. But you'll drive far more innovation if you have individuals who are also concerned with satisfying those needs for other people . And the…

Yeah, I mostly agree. Profit motive is not a terrible method on average. I just get a bit worked up when I encounter any variant of “a corporations only duty is to create shareholder value”. :)

Re: Inflammation might be the root of preventable disease

#209

Post by jqgatsby »

arkades wrote: post #161
blotter_paper wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The biggest key as to whether a molecule is considered inflammatory is what type of biologist discovered it first. I'm super ignorant of this field. Do you have examples of molecules that would be classified differently if found by different researchers?

Oh, happily. Interleukins are a great example, as a class. They were first discovered as signaling molecules between white blood cells (inter-, -leukins, leuko meaning 'white'). Unsurprisingly, though, just because we found types of cell-cell communication in immune cells first doesn't mean it's unique to the immune setting. Some examples: Interleukin-1 acts as a neutrophil chemotactic agent. It attracts that group o…

I'd be very curious to hear what you think of the interleukin 17A and 23 blockers, like taltz and tremfya. They're being sold as miracle drugs for psoriasis, but how sure are we that they don't somehow screw up your heart or bones over the course of 10 years?

Re: Inflammation might be the root of preventable disease

#210

Post by skookumchuck »

Swenrekcah wrote: post #206
skookumchuck wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curiosity does not provide funding in the quantities needed. Nor does it allocate resources towards maximizing the benefit to the maximum number of people.

But neither does profit motive. Is facebook maximizing the benefit of their users? It’s more like maximizing benefits to the minimum amount of people at the expense of the maximum number of people.

> But neither does profit motive.

Sure it does. Developing a cure for 100 people will generated far less profits than a cure for 100,000 people.

It's why you see cars get better every year and constant attempts to appeal to the widest customer base possible. (That didn't happen with Soviet built cars, which tended to never improve.)

As for advertising platforms, the customers are the advertisers.

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