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Ask HN: Do Udacity nanodegrees get anyone a job without academic background?

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Re: Ask HN: Do Udacity nanodegrees get anyone a job without academic background?

#41

Post by gdubs »

Ultimately people will hire you if they can understand the value you’ll bring to their org. I.e, the dollars you will help them earn, or the impact your efforts will have on a goal that’s primary to them. Education is one signal out of many.

That means that if you can get in front of the hiring manager, your resume is going to be less important than the impression you make on that person, and how compelling a case you can make about the value you’ll generate.

There are gate keepers out there who will discard perfectly good candidates because their resume doesn’t exactly match the job description; focus your energy on discovering ways to skip over those people and get in front of the decision makers — and then be prepared to articulate and demonstrate the value you’ll bring.

Re: Ask HN: Do Udacity nanodegrees get anyone a job without academic background?

#42

Post by randcraw »

Starknaked wrote: post #12
mowingscooter wrote: post #4

When I come across an applicant with a nanodegree, it almost sends a negative signal. If anything, do the course, leave it off your resume, and if you get an interview, you might impress your interviewer with all this unexpected technical knowledge.

How do you compare it to someone completely self taught with similar experience? At least with someone that completed a course you know the minimum extent of their knowledge and understanding.

I think in both cases you'll need to discuss the details of the projects you've done, whether in the ND or on your own. Without getting your hands dirty, any degree is just a piece of paper. Its the work you've done that proves you have real skills, and you're not just a trained chimp.

Re: Ask HN: Do Udacity nanodegrees get anyone a job without academic background?

#43

Post by dominotw »

larrik wrote: post #25
Starknaked wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what would be a better alternative to make your resume stand out to get a job that doesn't include doing a full degree?

Honestly? Make stuff. Get patches submitted to relevant open source projects. Make a small project that's actually finished (bonus if it's demo-able).

This is bad advice. No one has time to look at your open source patches and evaluate them.

Several hiring managers have told me this.

Re: Ask HN: Do Udacity nanodegrees get anyone a job without academic background?

#44

Post by cirgue »

cmroanirgo wrote: post #28
cirgue wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I feel like if you leave it off your resume, you probably wouldn't be able to land the interview to begin with. The nanodegree is step zero in teaching yourself to program and definitely isn't necessary. Demonstrating what you can do is several orders of magnitude more important, and is the real end goal. Most competent self-taught programmers understand this, and understand how trivial a nanodegree actually is as…

Yes, that's the rub: Getting past HR, which typically demands a degree (or higher). Unfortunately, there are a lot of self-starters in this industry and I feel it is the fault of HR's lack of education in this matter to be able to recognise good talent. I like your attitude toward interviewing anyone with who has launched a product as it gives you a lot to talk about.

The bigger factor is that it indicates that someone had the gumption to get there without the benefit of an academic and social system to motivate them. That is an impressive and unusual tendency of personality, and one that makes you an asset pretty much no matter where you are or what you’re doing. I want as many people like that in my organization as possible.

Re: Ask HN: Do Udacity nanodegrees get anyone a job without academic background?

#45

Post by munchbunny »

syntaxing wrote: post #8
mowingscooter wrote: post #4

When I come across an applicant with a nanodegree, it almost sends a negative signal. If anything, do the course, leave it off your resume, and if you get an interview, you might impress your interviewer with all this unexpected technical knowledge.

I'm surprised that it sends an negative signal. Is there a reasoning for it? Does completing an online course signify unwanted behavior/personality? I feel like if you leave it off your resume, you probably wouldn't be able to land the interview to begin with.

The nanodegree will never be the deciding factor when I consider granting an interview. At best it's a minor positive signal, but I'd certainly never consider it a negative signal. I know people who do and I think they're gatekeeping.

If the mention of the nanodegree fits into a broader narrative corroborated by other parts of the resume that this person is a self-learner, then I consider it favorably. I think the way I would describe it is that the nanodegree says this person "tried," but I need to see separate evidence that this person internalized the material.

Re: Ask HN: Do Udacity nanodegrees get anyone a job without academic background?

#46

Post by larrik »

dominotw wrote: post #43
larrik wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly? Make stuff. Get patches submitted to relevant open source projects. Make a small project that's actually finished (bonus if it's demo-able).

This is bad advice. No one has time to look at your open source patches and evaluate them. Several hiring managers have told me this.

It's better than "be good".

Getting interviews isn't the hard part. Getting through them is.

Re: Ask HN: Do Udacity nanodegrees get anyone a job without academic background?

#47

Post by stared »

Alex3917 wrote: post #11

No one is going to hire you because you have a degree, whether from a university or from Udacity. They'll hire you because: A) your overall resume is impressive B) you either have a portfolio of things you've built, or else you agree to do a take home assignment and successfully complete it C) you can pass both technical and non-technical interviews To get hired you need A && B && C. Doing Udacity will probably help…

15 years ago I went to MIT for a 1.5-month internship, while still in my high school. Companies still ask about that.

As much as I would like it to be otherwise, signaling (namedropping of famous universities, companies, and people) works a lot. I guess mostly because people prefer to delegate decision making. The backside of that is that unless you finished (or dropped out) from a well-respected univ., you have an uphill battle of proving one's worth.

Re: Ask HN: Do Udacity nanodegrees get anyone a job without academic background?

#48

Post by leesec »

Alex3917 wrote: post #11

No one is going to hire you because you have a degree, whether from a university or from Udacity. They'll hire you because: A) your overall resume is impressive B) you either have a portfolio of things you've built, or else you agree to do a take home assignment and successfully complete it C) you can pass both technical and non-technical interviews To get hired you need A && B && C. Doing Udacity will probably help…

Counterpoint: People will hire you because you have a degree.

You definitely don't need all A && B && C.

Sometimes being like-able and knowing someone is enough.

Re: Ask HN: Do Udacity nanodegrees get anyone a job without academic background?

#49

Post by internet_user »

maxxxxx wrote: post #37
Alex3917 wrote: post #11

No one is going to hire you because you have a degree, whether from a university or from Udacity. They'll hire you because: A) your overall resume is impressive B) you either have a portfolio of things you've built, or else you agree to do a take home assignment and successfully complete it C) you can pass both technical and non-technical interviews To get hired you need A && B && C. Doing Udacity will probably help…

In a lot of companies you will NOT get hired without degree. It's pretty much the barrier to entry before you can show your skills or experience . Not sure if Udacity degrees count for this.

Why is this downvoted? The truth hurts?

Re: Ask HN: Do Udacity nanodegrees get anyone a job without academic background?

#50

Post by internet_user »

mowingscooter wrote: post #15
syntaxing wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm surprised that it sends an negative signal. Is there a reasoning for it? Does completing an online course signify unwanted behavior/personality? I feel like if you leave it off your resume, you probably wouldn't be able to land the interview to begin with.

I’ve done online courses myself and found them immensely useful. Unfortunately, I think that to some extent, it signals that “I’m interested, but not committed enough to get a full degree.” Your nanodegree realistically will never come close to competing with a formal CS degree. So don’t bother with listing it. List your github projects and apps you’ve released. Get the interview. “Oh and by the way, in my spare time…

I'd go as far as saying that most formal CS degrees are often useless. FOUR years, and new grads often still can't code.

I've met some 3-4 year students in "Cybersecurity" programs that couldn't cogently explain the difference between private/public keys.

Think about that.

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