I like how one of the authors is from "Australian Catholic University". An expert on bullshitting?
Bullshitters: Who Are They and What Do We Know about Their Lives? [pdf]
191–200 of 270 posts
Re: Bullshitters: Who Are They and What Do We Know about Their Lives? [pdf]
#192Earlier quoted context omitted.
Dude I struggle with this everyday. When I first started off in my career I was so nervous to express any technical ideas or questions in front of other people because I thought I was stupid- as I started progressing in my career I learned that a lot of the people I encountered at work who were ultra confident (and probably attributed to my tech self-consciousness) actually knew way less than I thought. I still don’t…
When you are young, you think adults have it all figured out. When you become an adult yourself, you realize a good chunk of people are straight winging it and, in many cases, entire companies are winging it all together without fully realizing it.
Reminds me of this Calvin and Hobbes: https://i.redd.it/5k0uft6n3bcz.jpg
Re: Bullshitters: Who Are They and What Do We Know about Their Lives? [pdf]
#193The notion of bullshitters needs to be brought to the front of our industry's consciousness. Our industry is one where the impostor complex is rife and anyone who sounds confident must know what they're talking about, since even the PhD's aren't half as confident in their field of expertise as a bullshitter is at anything. The tech industry is increasingly inundated with these types of people who manage to get placed…
As a software engineer with a degree in non-CS STEM, I constantly ask myself if I am just a bullshitter. I can pass technical interviews for the most part and I code for fun, but I can't help but think "the people who work at Google are probably better than me".
That is called imposter-syndrome, and it basically is the opposite of bullshittery. All of us have insecurities about what they do -- our field is concerned with very abstract concepts and at the end of the day you have produced something of value (lines of code, a build system integration, maintenance on a legacy system), but you cannot touch it, feel it or have any relationship to it other than intellectual satisfaction.
This can lead to a valuation problem, where we find it hard to put a value on the work we actually do. We suddenly begin to doubt the whole process and our role in it. Its not unusual in tech, really many of us have the exactly same thoughts.
>> "the people who work at [X] are probably better than me"
Yes, some of them probably are. And some others are incompetent idiots. But most of them are neither here nor there and good percentage of them are asking themself the very same question (with X = {microsoft, apple, nasa, you name it...}).
The fact, that you are able to reflect on yourself, "can pass technical interviews" and "code for fun" is a good sign that you are probably not a bullshitter.
Re: Bullshitters: Who Are They and What Do We Know about Their Lives? [pdf]
#194Earlier quoted context omitted.
A colleague of mine put the problem more succinctly “what other industry is there where the top decision-makers have never done the basic work of the company?” Most executives in finance have done some form of financial analysis and reporting, construction company owners have almost always done a hard day’s worth of labor, and a lot of directors have had to do some acting / camera work and whatnot. In tech (especiall…
That’s a bit shallow isn’t it? Did Elon fly rockets before creating space-x?
I feel like there's a joke about getting high that could be made here.
Re: Bullshitters: Who Are They and What Do We Know about Their Lives? [pdf]
#195I like how one of the authors is from "Australian Catholic University". An expert on bullshitting?
I'm confused: https://www.acu.edu.au/ ?
Re: Bullshitters: Who Are They and What Do We Know about Their Lives? [pdf]
#196Earlier quoted context omitted.
A colleague of mine put the problem more succinctly “what other industry is there where the top decision-makers have never done the basic work of the company?” Most executives in finance have done some form of financial analysis and reporting, construction company owners have almost always done a hard day’s worth of labor, and a lot of directors have had to do some acting / camera work and whatnot. In tech (especiall…
>“what other industry is there where the top decision-makers have never done the basic work of the company?” Not to belabour a point sibling comments have already made but I think it's the other way around, actually. Much more common to have a CEO in tech who has been in the trenches than in other industries. Compare the likelihood of a tech CEO having some software engineering/programming experience to the likelihoo…
I would disagree; most tech CEOs are sales & marketing people at their core. Especially once you grow beyond the startup phase.
Margins are fat enough in most tech verticals that operational efficiency often takes a back seat to driving the top-line. And once your growth starts to plateau, in comes a bean-counter CEO with a finance background.
Re: Bullshitters: Who Are They and What Do We Know about Their Lives? [pdf]
#197It's important to note that this study focuses on data from 15-year-olds taking a math test. I assert that drawing broad conclusions based on that sample is suspect and may be, in fact, bullshit itself.
That was a strange choice. Did they have cheap access to high school students?
It's a recognized problem in psychology that much research is the study of college undergrads, because they're available for free. More recently, there's the use of Mechanical Turk for studies, which means the population studied is people really desperate to work for peanuts.
Now a study of job applicants... that would be more interesting.
Re: Bullshitters: Who Are They and What Do We Know about Their Lives? [pdf]
#198The notion of bullshitters needs to be brought to the front of our industry's consciousness. Our industry is one where the impostor complex is rife and anyone who sounds confident must know what they're talking about, since even the PhD's aren't half as confident in their field of expertise as a bullshitter is at anything. The tech industry is increasingly inundated with these types of people who manage to get placed…
The problem is not the bullshitters.
They are usually a sign of deeper problems that no one more competent wants to deal with. Does Bill Gates want to be President? Nope. What a hassle, too busy, other interests etc etc etc.
The higher up you climb no issue is black and white. And the more ambiguous things get in terms of cost to self and everyone else, the less the number of people willing to stick their neck out.
Thats when you locate a master bullshitter and invite him into the room with all the best and the brightest present and hand him all power. It shakes everyone up. And sooner or later someone will step up. The older you get the more you play these kind of games to 'nudge' people into taking on thankless responsibilities.
Re: Bullshitters: Who Are They and What Do We Know about Their Lives? [pdf]
#199The US has a long history as the land of the bullshitter - the snake-oil sales men, the Psychics and Tarot card readers, the self-help authors, the "business coaches", MLM... the list is endless. And people love it so much they'll gladly get into debt for it and even vote for the king of Bullshit for president.
Ah, why did you have to spoil a great cultural observation with a contemporary political dig at the end?
But it's not political, really. Both parties have different politicians shoveling different bullshit to different people. Same game, different target audience.
That's not to say genuine people/products/value doesn't exist but you have to dig through so much bullshit to find any of it.
Re: Bullshitters: Who Are They and What Do We Know about Their Lives? [pdf]
#200Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, but I find I usually take a social hit by asking the question. A good 80% of those listening will think that you simply don't understand something. The other 20% are either indifferent or actively threatened by the observation. It doesn't pay to speak up about anything, you just get talked down to by those who are bullshitting.
Not sure I agree with that. When you ask a question, you may be speaking for most of the room. It's just that you're the only one bold enough to say it. And if you are speaking for most of the room, you won't take a social hit for the question. Quite the opposite. (Of course, it can be that you just weren't paying attention. For questions that come out of that situation, you may in fact take a social hit, and perhaps…
> most of the room
Careful, there's an important distinction between "the majority of participants" and "those who have the most power and the most to lose."
In fact, that reminds me of a Terry Pratchett quote which I think is particularly appropriate to this subject:
___
> Supposing an emperor was persuaded to wear a new suit of clothes whose material was so fine that, to the common eye, the clothes weren't there. And suppose a little boy pointed out this fact in a loud, clear voice...
> Then you have The Story of the Emperor Who Had No Clothes.
> But if you knew a bit more, it would be The Story of the Boy Who Got a Well-Deserved Thrashing from His Dad for Being Rude to Royalty, and Was Locked Up.
> Or The Story of the Whole Crowd Who Were Rounded Up by the Guards and Told 'This Didn't Happen, OK? Does Anyone Want to Argue?'
> Or it could be a story of how a whole kingdom suddenly saw the benefit of the 'new clothes', and developed an enthusiasm for healthy sports in a lively and refreshing atmosphere which got many new adherents every year, and led to a recession caused by the collapse of the conventional clothing industry.