Inflammation might be the root of preventable disease • Hacker News Board

Re: Inflammation might be the root of preventable disease

#191

Post by projektfu » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 4:03 PM UTC

abledon wrote: post #67

projektfu wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I learned it as "rubor, tumor, calor, dolor, et functio laesa" meaning redness, swelling, heat, pain and loss of function. These are the classic signs and the reason it gets its name, as it's like a fire in the body. But as other commenters have said, it now seems to be the presence of certain signalling molecules or cell types that are associated with inflammation, and when people speak of it they may not be referri…

I'd like a physics level explanation.. when those molecules are there? whats going on at the atomic level, is there an excess of negatively or positively charged molecules ? When there is inflammation, there is usually heat, and heat means energy.

Lots of things can be going on. One of the most dramatic things is the respiratory burst of neutrophils. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Respiratory_burst. But neutrophils are not the only inflammatory cell and not all inflammatory processes involve them. There is way too much to describe in a comment on the internet.

Re: Inflammation might be the root of preventable disease

#192

Post by rsync » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 4:03 PM UTC

hoseja wrote: post #109

rsync wrote: post #45

Inflammation ? Fasting. Just try it. It costs nothing.

Except major performance decrease. Some people cannot afford that.

"Except major performance decrease. Some people cannot afford that."

This was my first reservation about fasting and while everybody is different and you'll need to see how your own body responds, I am happy to report that the following activities:

- mid to long distance runs (4-8 miles) - 60-90 minute power movement weightlifting session - routine crossfit workout and/or plyometrics - BJJ class with 5 minute sparring rounds

... are not only not impacted, but are in many cases enhanced by being in a fasted state. The most positive impact is in my weightlifting workout[1] which, ironically, is the activity I thought would be most negatively impacted.

I can't speak to 50 mile ultra runs and I know I can't do all of the above in a fasted state - but I never attempted to do all of the above on the same day anyway.

Just try it.

[1] Power movements, relatively heavy weights and relatively low reps. Just the kind of workout you'd think would be difficult while in a fasted state.

Re: Inflammation might be the root of preventable disease

#193

Post by Tharkun » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 4:06 PM UTC

tim333 wrote: post #157

RobertRoberts wrote: post #7

How can a symptom be the "cause" of a disease? Gingivitis is "inflammation of the gums", but it's "caused" by bacteria, plaque, tarter, etc... inflammation is the description of what is happening (ie, symptom) not the "cause".

The gum disease thing is actually one of the best bits of evidence for the inflammation does bad stuff hypothesis: >People with gum disease (also known as periodontal disease) have two to three times the risk of having a heart attack, stroke, or other serious cardiovascular event. https://www.health.harvard.edu/heart-health/gum-disease-and-... The idea is bacteria in the gums cause inflammation (red swollen flesh, mo…

I'm sure I remember reading an article on HN linking gum disease to alzheimer's...

Re: Inflammation might be the root of preventable disease

#194

Post by js2 » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 4:07 PM UTC

magnamerc wrote: post #179

0xcde4c3db wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you have to loose significant weight which is at least -20% I think that's an oversimplification. Roughly a third of people with T2D have a normal BMI, and most obese people don't have T2D. I mean, sure, lose the weight if you can afford it, but that's attacking an exacerbating factor rather than the root causes (which are not really understood yet).

Huh? Losing weight requires less resources (money) than maintaining it, you just simply stop eating and fast. Proper nutrition and hormone regulation to maintain your lower body weight is a different question, but even that should be cheaper or the same amount of money given that you're reducing your overall caloric intake, even though the food you purchase may be slightly more expensive. Also, the root causes are fa…

Parent wrote “Roughly a third of people with T2D have a normal BMI.” Those people can’t “afford” to lose weight not in the dollar sense, but because they have no weight to lose.

Re: Inflammation might be the root of preventable disease

#195

Post by reallydude » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 4:13 PM UTC

saiya-jin wrote: post #152

skookumchuck wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Profits are what drives innovation in pharmaceuticals.

Yes but it also skews the incentives. The cure for diabetes has little meaning to pharmas. They want to keep people alive but paying for rest of their lives. That's how money shape commercial research

> The cure for diabetes has little meaning to pharmas

Unless you're the first to cure. The income, grants, and knowledge drain in your favor? People will continue to get diabetes and a treatment will cure it.

Re: Inflammation might be the root of preventable disease

#196

Post by all_blue_chucks » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 4:20 PM UTC

Haga wrote: post #91

all_blue_chucks wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Getting off-topic, but how do biologists define the "highness" of an organism?

Complexity, as in complexity of gestation, development and life cycle.

What units are used to measure complexity?

Re: Inflammation might be the root of preventable disease

#197

Post by iron0013 » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 5:19 PM UTC

RobertRoberts wrote: post #37

iron0013 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of things that have upstream causes also have downstream effects.

Yes, but if you cure the "cause" then the symptoms go away too.

Well, sometimes, but sometimes it's like closing the barn door after the cattle have escaped--too late!

Re: Inflammation might be the root of preventable disease

#198

Post by fastball » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 5:42 PM UTC

Swenrekcah wrote: post #160

fastball wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thing the argument is more along the lines of: 1. Observed value drives innovation. 2. Profit / profit-motive is one of the most straightforward / most efficient means we have to observe value.

You’re probably right and my counter argument would be: 1. Human [curiosity, desire, necessity] drives innovation. 2. Profit mandate suppresses most of those innovations by promoting the few money making ideas (however beneficial or harmful they may be).

I think the issue with that response is that [curiosity, desire, necessity] are all just specific versions of "observed value" which you are then applying to oneself. Sure, you'll have a lot of innovation if everyone is trying to satisfy their own curiosity, desire, or necessity. But you'll drive far more innovation if you have individuals who are also concerned with satisfying those needs for other people. And the easiest proxy for "someone else desires or needs this" is pricing mechanisms. Luckily, the internet / better communication methods are making it much easier to determine what is valuable to others without pricing mechanisms, but I would argue that profit motive is still the most effective method.

Re: Inflammation might be the root of preventable disease

#199

Post by baxtr » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 6:47 PM UTC

jodrellblank wrote: post #150

baxtr wrote: post #102

> People already know what they should be doing—but for most, that knowledge doesn’t change behavior. Humans are hard-wired to conserve energy (see “Born to Rest,” September-October 2016, page 9), for example, and to prefer foods that are fatty, salty, and sugary. This suggests that pharmaceutical interventions that block inflammation may be necessary to check the global epidemic of non-communicable disease. Really?…

Your quote says "humans are hard-wired to conserve energy", not "humans are soft-wired to be stupid and can learn to be smart". Where does "work on becoming smart" address anything you quoted?

The quote is assuming people are "machines" hard-wired to eat bad food and don't work out. I deeply believe humans are smart and can reflect and change their behavior. At least, we need to give them the chance to.

Where do you think did I not address the things I quoted?

Re: Inflammation might be the root of preventable disease

#200

Post by et2o » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 7:05 PM UTC

cik2e wrote: post #68

et2o wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Congratulations on your progress! Interested why you decided against metformin. Lots of people without DM or Metabolic syndrome are taking it for its apparent life extension effects (mostly unproven this far in humans). For diabetes, there's pretty solid evidence. I work in this space tangentially and I had not heard of berberine before. What are you hoping to achieve with this supplement?

Berberine has been shown to be as effective as metformin at controlling blood sugar with additional anti-depressive benefits. https://examine.com/supplements/berberine/

I don't think it's comparable. That link overstates the amount of evidence. Notably the only good trial didn't compare it to metformin. Three small trials and a meta analysis. There is decades of experience with and significant evidence for the efficacy of metformin.