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Flutter desktop shells

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Re: Flutter desktop shells

#51

Post by simonh »

jonny_eh wrote: post #25
tadzik_ wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure it is, but I can see why OP looks down on it – just like their web rendering engine, it may be open source, but it's Google holding all the cards and ultimately making all the decisions. It may be opensource now while it's useful for them, but it may end up just like Android over the years: more and more closed bit by bit.

Is Google any worse than some "benevolent dictator for life" like other open-source languages?

Benevolent dictators eventually die, or retire while corporate entities can exist for a very long time[1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kong%C5%8D_Gumi

Re: Flutter desktop shells

#52

Post by ralusek »

0xDEEPFAC wrote: post #24
s_y_n_t_a_x wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't use a browser to draw the UI, it draws it itself. It's not native UI controls though, they're emulated UI controls.

Ok, still miles better in terms of performance I am sure then. Thanks!

Have you used a good electron application, like VSCode or Figma?

Re: Flutter desktop shells

#53

Post by robmccoll »

We finally have an answer to "how do I write GUI apps that work on all three major desktop OSes, both major mobile OSes and the web?" that isn't just run a web browser instance per application. Nothing wrong with Javascript these days, but it's hard to get consistency and the performance just isn't there. Something that compiles AOT and renders its own controls directly through OpenGL sounds great. Technically Qt can do this, but then there's licensing and C++ and it's all just kind of heavy development-wise.

Re: Flutter desktop shells

#54

Post by theDoug »

romanovcode wrote: post #48

I don't know about this. 5000+ issues is not very reassuring regarding this project.

Nah. The number of issues on any project is not an indication of project quality but community activity and imagination for improvements. This is the wrong number to point to if you're trying to make this point.

Re: Flutter desktop shells

#55

Post by SlowRobotAhead »

rubber_duck wrote: post #6
yc-kraln wrote: post #3

I really want to like Flutter, but I someone really don't want to spend the time to learn Dart. I can't really quantify it--some mix of yet-another Proprietary Google Technology, yet another ecosystem, yet another X. I'm tired I just want to build stuff that solves problems.

I've tried dart back in the Angular 2 beta days with Angular Dart and after using it I have the exact opposite feeling about it. It's a thing that solved a lot of very real problems that are still halfassed by NPM and Node ecosystem - package manager, build system, tooling around it - it was all a step above the quality of TypeScript/NPM/JS. Saner object semantics, good standard library, good tooling - it just got me…

Ok, but to parent’s point... is it going to last? Is it yet another thing Google will abandon? Is it worth learning, because learning another language has a real cost imo. If Google walks at any point, does Flutter or Dart survive?

I’m with him, I want to like the idea, but I think the adoption has been slow and it doesn’t appear like it’s going to suddenly take off. I could be wrong, I just don’t see any successful indications yet.

Re: Flutter desktop shells

#56

Post by 0xDEEPFAC »

ralusek wrote: post #52
0xDEEPFAC wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, still miles better in terms of performance I am sure then. Thanks!

Have you used a good electron application, like VSCode or Figma?

Unfortunatly, not one that doesn't render my netbook unusable. The old QT version of Skype was OK until microsoft killed it - the new one is a hog

Re: Flutter desktop shells

#57

Post by StreamBright »

sbilstein wrote: post #7
yc-kraln wrote: post #3

I really want to like Flutter, but I someone really don't want to spend the time to learn Dart. I can't really quantify it--some mix of yet-another Proprietary Google Technology, yet another ecosystem, yet another X. I'm tired I just want to build stuff that solves problems.

If you are handy with Java, Typescript or Javascript, Dart is a breeze to learn. I didn't invest any time learning Dart to get productive with it while using flutter.

Yes but there is also the question why don't I learn React, Rust or Clojure instead of Dart. Am I going to be better of knowing Dart?

Re: Flutter desktop shells

#58

Post by expliced »

skinnyasianboi wrote: post #33
est31 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what's your alternative? Java Swing? Proprietary Sun (now Oracle) technology. Qt? Proprietary Trolltech tech. Electron? You're back on square one of using Google technology. And winforms, WPF, application kit, etc are all far more proprietary than Flutter.

Kotlin native/multiplatform projects is the answer

You still need some gui library/framework. What crossplatform options do you have?

Re: Flutter desktop shells

#59

Post by robmccoll »

pojntfx wrote: post #39

We already have something like this. It's called the web.

Yes, but on a desktop, running a web app as a native application is tolerable, not great. On mobile, it's frequently a performance and battery problem and interacting with native APIs is hit or miss. This comment is similar to someone seeing the web stack used to build an application and saying "We already have something like this. It's called Win32 or Cocoa or GTK+ or Qt or writing directly to a frame buffer ..." Different technologies for customer demands, timelines, teams...

Re: Flutter desktop shells

#60

Post by dvdgsng »

gardaani wrote: post #46

They are still using OpenGL on Mac. Apple has deprecated OpenGL. I'd definitely wait until the Flutter team has replaced the OpenGL dependency with Apple's Metal. (I really hope they will do it.)

Does Apple not support Vulkan?
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