Android updates are getting slower and slower, despite Google's best efforts • Hacker News Board

Re: Android updates are getting slower and slower, despite Google's best efforts

#51

Post by aeturnum » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 1:51 PM UTC

Since updating to Android 9 I've had the weirdest problems. Phone calls will randomly drop (neither I nor the other person is moving, happens on wifi and mobile) in the middle of the call. No apparent connection to internet traffic. I've also started seeing an issue where the phone will call someone and connect but not start playing audio or transmitting audio. Also, if I'm on wifi and then leave wifi (or turn it off), the phone will silently fail to use the mobile network. It will display that it has 4g / 3g / whatever, but data doesn't work and phone calls fail. The only fix is restarting the phone.

I have a Nokia 8, which isn't a particularly popular handset and I'm thinking of switching to an old Samsung S8 or something - but it's striking to me how badly the experience has declined since 8. The phone was wonderful with 8!

Re: Android updates are getting slower and slower, despite Google's best efforts

#52

Post by swiley » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 1:53 PM UTC

mikece wrote: post #15

This is why Google is devoting more and more resources to the Fuchsia project: to replace Android with an operating system that supports over-the-air (or WiFi) updates like iOS does and Windows Mobile did. It's the only way Google can effectively fight their fragmentation issue: get everyone to upgrade to the latest OS version.

Fuscha is a kernel and has absolutely nothing to do with this. There are plenty of Linux based Oses that don’t have this problem. (This is even more the case with android since the really hairy stuff like GPU drivers aren’t even part of the kernel.)

The problem is that the entire android user space is built as a single monolithic project that gets forked and closed by the OEM and all of the components have to be updated at once.

IMHO: fuscha will probably make things worse: at least with Linux the code needed to boot the device gets published due to the GPL combined with the monolithic kernel architecture making community projects like cyanogenmod (or whatever it’s called now) possible. I seriously doubt that will be the case with fuscha, it will just get forked and closed like the AOSP components do now (which have the same license.)

Re: Android updates are getting slower and slower, despite Google's best efforts

#53

Post by setpatchaddress » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 1:56 PM UTC

cageface wrote: post #17

This is definitely a problem but in practice it's not as dire as this article makes it sound. So many of the essential pieces have been factored out into the support libraries and independently upgradable components that Android devices actually get more regular updates in some respects than iOS devices do. For example, I have to update my entire iPhone OS to get an updated web browser or photo library or keyboard. G…

Downside of updating support libraries independently is that it balloons the QA matrix and makes integration bugs inevitable. The iOS approach means the entire OS is properly tested as an entire entity.

Re: Android updates are getting slower and slower, despite Google's best efforts

#54

Post by moviuro » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 1:57 PM UTC

alexandercrohde wrote: post #4

Not sure why I should care. Can't think of a single feature I'm missing on my S6.

Security? https://source.android.com/security/bulletin/

Re: Android updates are getting slower and slower, despite Google's best efforts

#55

Post by noxToken » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 1:57 PM UTC

waynenilsen wrote: post #11

The biggest problem is that android is not focusing on the low end where most of their users are. They need to make the UX on these older and slower devices _better_ with every update, not worse

Wouldn't that be up to the device manufacturer and in the case of the app themselves, the app devs? Samsung has TouchWiz and LG has (I think it's called) Home. There are 3rd party launchers available to download that will use a smaller footprint.

I had an older HTC phone that was great for dev testing perf on lower end devices. It had a terrible memory leak that caused the phone to run slower overall, and you had to make numerous tweaks to fix it. One of them was to replace the default launcher. It made an immediate difference.

Although I do concede that Google's apps are terrible for lower end devices.

Re: Android updates are getting slower and slower, despite Google's best efforts

#56

Post by AdmiralAsshat » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 1:58 PM UTC

Security updates are becoming more dire, but feature updates between versions has been dwindling since the early days. I've had an Android phone continuously since 2011, and while I could detail a laundry list of stuff we got from Gingerbread -> Ice Cream Sandwich or KitKat -> Lollipop, I can't think of many "game changers" from Marshmallow on that made each new update a "must have". Just trying to think of the ones I actually noticed or used:

Nougat: Slightly better battery with doze mode; Built-in Night Light so I no longer need cf.lumen or Twilight

Oreo: A better AutoFill API for my password manager

Pie: Adaptive battery? I lost the ability to record calls when my phone got the Pie update, so I wouldn't really consider that a feature.

So basically, other than having to use a third-party screen temperature app and needing to manually copy-paste passwords, there wasn't much meaningful difference in the experience between my Nexus 7 running Marshmallow and my S8+ phone with the Pie update.

Re: Android updates are getting slower and slower, despite Google's best efforts

#57

Post by marak830 » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 1:58 PM UTC

ebg13 wrote: post #8

maaaats wrote: post #3

> Android devices aren’t kept up to date, leaving their users unable to benefit from advancements in the platform. What advancements? Both iOS and Android have for a few years reached maturity, not much exciting with each new update. At least not without new hardware, as most updates are to support something physical (notch, fingerprints, face scan etc). I used to hate my phone not being updated, so switched to a bra…

> What advancements? Security?

Security updates should be independent of all the other crap they lump in with them.

Re: Android updates are getting slower and slower, despite Google's best efforts

#58

Post by _coveredInBees » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 1:59 PM UTC

Anechoic wrote: post #41

cheeze wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just can't believe that 10 years later I still have to have a grid and have to hide apps I don't care about in folders.

have to hide apps I don't care about in folders iOS lets you delete most 1st party apps: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208094

I think you and all the replies to the parent have missed the point trying to be made. If you view the homescreens in iOS as your desktop, you don't want all your apps littering it with shortcuts. The op is talking about having to setup folders to hide away apps that they use rarely but don't want to uninstall. Android handles this in a far better way, where you have an app drawer that pulls up all your app icons on a grid that is easily searchable if you want to get to any installed app. That frees up your homescreen to be used for exactly those icons and widgets that you want, which is a lot nicer than the iOS way.

Re: Android updates are getting slower and slower, despite Google's best efforts

#59

Post by moviuro » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 1:59 PM UTC

oropolo wrote: post #44

boramalper wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn’t Android already support OTA upgrades?

Google can't make it happen unilaterally other than the Pixel phones. Without both the carrier and the handset maker putting work into the upgrade it won't happen. And the handset makers like Samsung don't want to cannibalize sales or spend resources allowing us to upgrade our Galaxy S5 handsets to Android P and Q.

Don't forget Android One which is a pretty decent initiative. My updates happen within ~30 days

https://android.com/one

Re: Android updates are getting slower and slower, despite Google's best efforts

#60

Post by the_pwner224 » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 2:00 PM UTC

aeturnum wrote: post #51

Since updating to Android 9 I've had the weirdest problems. Phone calls will randomly drop (neither I nor the other person is moving, happens on wifi and mobile) in the middle of the call. No apparent connection to internet traffic. I've also started seeing an issue where the phone will call someone and connect but not start playing audio or transmitting audio. Also, if I'm on wifi and then leave wifi (or turn it off…

If you're in the US, you may want to avoid Samsungs after the S5 - they all have locked bootloaders, and you will not be able to move away from the Samsung ROM. Maybe you don't think that's important now, but chances are you'll be keeping the phone for a few years, and you don't know how your needs or wants will change by then.

Also it's nice (and not very hard) to install AOSP/LineageOS to get a lighter, faster, smoother, bloat-free, but still feature-rich experience, without all the tracking and shady stuff that OEMs put in.

I used to have an S5 with LineageOS + F-Droid (no Google apps); the phone was faster and the battery lasted longer than my new S9 (from which I have purged all the unnecessary apps I can including Google's stuff).