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The End of Being a Duke Professor and What It Means for the Future of Higher Ed

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Re: The End of Being a Duke Professor and What It Means for the Future of Higher Ed

#131

Post by chongli »

metaphor wrote: post #32
chongli wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know how to say this without it sounding like a brag, but here goes anyway: this is University of Waterloo in a nutshell. I'm entering third year, studying math, and every single one of my friends has gone from high 90s in high school (multiple valedictorians) to struggling to keep an average in the 70s-80s range. Anecdotally, one of my friends did a work term for the Dean of Science (and pure mathematics pro…

Admittedly struggling to find the exception[1] that you speak of. Maybe I'm looking at the wrong course? The experience is effectively the same at any tier 1 university in the US. Some even have special names[2]. [1] https://www.studocu.com/en/course/university-of-waterloo/cal... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditions_of_the_Georgia_Inst...

I only looked at a few of the assignments from your first link but they are much easier than the one I wrote [1]. Perhaps my term was an outlier. Have a look for yourself.

[1] https://docdro.id/khG8VN7

Re: The End of Being a Duke Professor and What It Means for the Future of Higher Ed

#132

Post by chongli »

mkl wrote: post #96
chongli wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know how to say this without it sounding like a brag, but here goes anyway: this is University of Waterloo in a nutshell. I'm entering third year, studying math, and every single one of my friends has gone from high 90s in high school (multiple valedictorians) to struggling to keep an average in the 70s-80s range. Anecdotally, one of my friends did a work term for the Dean of Science (and pure mathematics pro…

I'd be interested in seeing that assignment, if you can lay your hands on it. I teach university maths.

I posted a link to it in reply to the other person.

Re: The End of Being a Duke Professor and What It Means for the Future of Higher Ed

#133

Post by schrectacular »

batty_alex wrote: post #116
yarg wrote: post #28

More and more this safe space bullshit is infiltrating the former bastions of free-thought. It is a disturbing trend where it no longer matters if someone can convey a counter argument to any given point of view, the mere presence of a point of view contrary to the modern anti-liberal left world view - even if purely rhetorical - breaches the safe space contract and justifies censuring or even punishment. It will onl…

> More and more this safe space bullshit is infiltrating the former bastions of free-thought. Responding to an article about Duke with this conclusion is rich. Duke is a hyper-wealthy institution that is hardly apolitical. Their neatly-manicured campus right next to impoverished portions of Durham and their decision to destroy a decades-long battle for light-rail by changing their mind last-minute doesn't strike me a…

>Duke isn't some bastion of progressivism

That's precisely the point and the problem - the University is there to make money, and the students are the customers. This conceptualization of the goal of the institution had risen on lockstep with the growth of the administration-class in universities, and is at odds with the purported purpose of the academy - to holistically educate students and open minds.

The administration obviously thinks this negative PR is lesser than whatever fallout it would receive from the _sealed_ complaints of a minority of students.

Re: The End of Being a Duke Professor and What It Means for the Future of Higher Ed

#134

Post by pjc50 »

gdfasfklshg4 wrote: post #115
pjc50 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there is a large amount of misunderstanding (and misinformation) about what safe spaces and trigger warnings are actually all about. They have also been subject to a certain amount of .. inflation? But the core ideas are important. "Trigger" originally referred specifically to PTSD. There is a small number of students, such as women who have experienced sexual assault, for whom the subject is more than merely…

>> microagressing them > Somehow I'm reminded of the debate over corporal punishment in schools, where pedagogical effectiveness takes a back seat to more primal ideas about punishment, conformity, and order. People used to be beaten for being left-handed, remember. Can you provide some context to justify comparing microagressions with beating people with sticks?

Difference between "agression" and "microagression" is one of scale - and they are at a very different scale, hence the "micro". But the intent to hurt is common.

We can see even in this thread people talking about the need to "toughen" up students.

Some people who think that any form of physical hurt would be completely unacceptable still seem to think that emotional hurt is completely fictional and it's totally OK to inflict arbitrary amounts of it on people, then refuse to believe their own accounts of the hurt.

Re: The End of Being a Duke Professor and What It Means for the Future of Higher Ed

#135

Post by basetop »

rland wrote: post #18

I have read probably 4 or 5 of these articles, written by professors/teachers, claiming to have been punished for their speech. 2 common threads about them. The first is that they rarely discuss specifics about what positions or what opinions got them censured. The second is that the comments section is typically full of drive by commenters who aren't responding to the content of the post in particular but to the ide…

If you've read 4 or 5 articles already, maybe it signifies a trend?

Another common theme in these threads are comments attempting to dismiss and marginalize these victims because it doesn't align with one's political ideologies. I'm surprised you didn't mention that. If you've read these threads, I'm sure you've noticed the support for censorship and the sneaky attempts to justify censorship for political ideology.

Yes, you are right, if a professor teaches that the sun orbits the earth, that should be questioned. And if it was that blatant, then we would know about it already. But what if a professor teaches that biological sex exists? Should they be censured? What if a professor says there aren't anything such as biological sex? Should they be censured?

How many of these censorships are because a physics professors claimed that the sun orbits the earth? None. If you've really paid attention to this issue, you know that most of these censorship are due to political reasons - whether it is Evergreen professors or the CERN scientist and everyone in between.

I can understand the support for censorship in the media, but I can't understand any support for it on a hacker news site. Even for ideological reasons.

Re: The End of Being a Duke Professor and What It Means for the Future of Higher Ed

#136

Post by linuxftw »

ordinaryperson wrote: post #117
Shivetya wrote: post #89

Welcome to the Heckler's Veto becoming the norm of higher education if not corporate life. This is the method of choice in almost all instances of issues surrounding race, religion, and orientation, now. Look at Intersectionality[1] for clues to why the situation has gotten out of hand. In essence there are so many levels of grievance. In effect, unless you are part of the class of people your right to discuss or rai…

While I agree and sympathize with Professor Charney's on one level, on another the real problem (IMHO) is the lack of legit opportunities in Higher Ed. In the corporate world people are fired or let go for silly reasons or non-reasons all the time: that's at-will employment. But for people in most fields they just find another job and move on; the problem here is there aren't many opportunities to teach at a prestigi…

> the lack of legit opportunities in Higher Ed.

Higher ed was never a legit opportunity in the first place. It's all gate-keeping by the establishment.

In this professor's case, they seemed to mistake experience with value. Turns out, you can use a slave-laborer (grad student) to teach classes much more efficiently. The market value of a college professor is apparently 0.

Re: The End of Being a Duke Professor and What It Means for the Future of Higher Ed

#137

Post by nradov »

XMPPwocky wrote: post #45
nradov wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no need to accommodate fragile, weak minded students in higher education. They need to toughen up or be cast aside.

I mean this in all possible sincerity- do you realize you sound like a generic villain?

Not at all. Catering to fragile students ruins the educational experience for everyone else. Some people aren't a good fit for liberal higher education, and would be better suited to other environments.

Re: The End of Being a Duke Professor and What It Means for the Future of Higher Ed

#138

Post by pjc50 »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #128
edraferi wrote: post #3

It seems like there’s a gap in the market for a hard-nosed, teaching-first university. A place full of passionate professors with high standards. A place where high school valedictorians work their ass off for a B. A place where you feel your best will never be good enough because the standards are impossible... until, one day, you get an A. And that grade MEANS something. And after four years, the students walk out…

Does there exist a "teaching-first university" at all? If so, not many.

The "polytechnic" class of higher education institution?

The problem is that people seem to believe that research is osmotic: that students in the same institution as some research is happening will learn more. Hence the most prestigious universities are those with high-status research programmes.

Re: The End of Being a Duke Professor and What It Means for the Future of Higher Ed

#139

Post by azhenley »

yostrovs wrote: post #122
ordinaryperson wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree and sympathize with Professor Charney's on one level, on another the real problem (IMHO) is the lack of legit opportunities in Higher Ed. In the corporate world people are fired or let go for silly reasons or non-reasons all the time: that's at-will employment. But for people in most fields they just find another job and move on; the problem here is there aren't many opportunities to teach at a prestigi…

Maybe there's not enough academic jobs because too many people try to obtain them. And the reason there's too many is because of false advertising of what academic life is really like. Who would really want to be a professor given what this professor is going through? And he probably didn't earn much. In the media, though, a professor is always presented with respect. It's a professor! So kids get the wrong idea. The…

I'm nearing the end of my first year as a professor. I'd highly recommend it.

Re: The End of Being a Duke Professor and What It Means for the Future of Higher Ed

#140

Post by imgabe »

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #114
imgabe wrote: post #91

Who is raising these kids to believe that hearing something they disagree is equivalent to "harm"? It must be my filter bubble, but I only ever hear about people decrying this practice and never anyone supporting it. Where is it coming from?

Did you read the article? From what I understand there’s not enough evidence to make this conclusion.

To make what conclusion? That some students believe that they are being harmed? That language exactly is what is used in the article. Why do you think it's not supported?
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