Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#301

Post by iamaelephant » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 5:34 AM UTC

basetop wrote: post #164

Allvitende wrote: post #148

Just want to say that the amount of hate Elon gets on HN is really interesting.

It's the same handful of characters repeating the same ad hominems every earnings report. Anti-weed puritans whining about "joe rogan weed". The pro-news crowd attacking him for his rebuff of the news industry. The "thailand crowd" for lack of a better word upset Elon Musk brought up pedophilia epidemic in thailand. And the short seller crowd claiming this earnings report is their vindication and their road to riches…

> The "thailand crowd" for lack of a better word upset Elon Musk brought up pedophilia epidemic in thailand.

You mean that time he accused a child-saving hero of having sex with children? I guess that's one way of putting it.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

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Post by epistasis » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 5:37 AM UTC

frankchn wrote: post #263

moduspol wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The car, the service, the people, all of it is on a whole higher plane of satisfaction. It feels like the transition from a flip phone to an iPhone in 2008. Same here. This is how I describe it to other people.

Could that lead be maintained? It was a big jump from a BlackBerry to an original iPhone, but is there one from a Pixel 3 to an iPhone XS?

Does the lead need to be maintained? If everybody else catches up, but does not surpass, that's not a loss and Tesla is still competing. And by then Tesla may be competing at the lower margin segments of the market too.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

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Post by m3kw9 » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 5:37 AM UTC

rjdagost wrote: post #229

ProfessorLayton wrote: post #81

Tesla's 1.5B reduction of cash on hand was largely due to the 920M convertible bond payment — but that only happened because TSLA didn't perform to the level necessary for conversion (~$360 IIRC). I wonder what changes in terms this'll warrant for future capital raises. Then they mention that they missed a lot of revenue due to missing half their shipments overseas, and onto Q2 (But also expecting a loss in Q2). Sale…

This wasn't reported much, but Tesla also expanded their ABL (Asset Based Lending) credit agreement by $500M in March 2019: https://ir.tesla.com/node/19561/html Without that, they would have $500M less cash on hand. They shipped half of their cars in the final 10 days of Q1. Finances must have been pretty tight at the start of March. That was around the time they announced they are closing all stores, firing sales pe…

Probably because 90% of the ppl can’t tell the difference between model X and Y.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

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Post by nradov » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 5:38 AM UTC

wil421 wrote: post #299

nradov wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to be pedantic, in the US market $35K is technically the low end of premium car territory. Actually luxury car territory starts significant higher.

Significantly higher? A brand new 3 series is 40k, an Audi A4 is 39k, and a C Class is 41k. I’m not even looking at the smaller 4 door models from Audi and Benz which are even less than the Model 3. Maybe Europe gets a smaller 4 door BMW. I didn’t even count the offerings from Japan which are even less.

An Audi A4 is really not a luxury vehicle in any meaningful sense.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

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Post by zhoujianfu » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 5:39 AM UTC

epistasis wrote: post #42

DamnYuppie wrote: post #10

I see this trend continuing for Tesla. Aside from Musk's leadership, which is very polarizing, I don't see their cars as being very compelling compared to the upcoming offerings of Audi and Porsche. Tesla isn't really competing against Ford/Chevy/Honda/Toyota. Instead they are competing against BMW/Mercedes/Porsche/Audi. By comparison Teslas seems like a toy compared to those other brands so I will gladly wait and gi…

I've never been super convinced by Tesla even after test driving, and was fairly happy with my German made car. But I had to make a change recently for a family-friendlier car and wanted electric now so got a Model 3. Now, I'm fully convinced by Tesla in every way and am never ever going back to dealerships. The car, the service, the people, all of it is on a whole higher plane of satisfaction. It feels like the tran…

I’ve been driving an x for the last three years, but we also have a 2013 odyssey and decided to upgrade that to the 2019 version.

It’s insane how archaic it feels after getting used to a Tesla. Now, an odyssey isn’t a luxury vehicle or anything, but it is the top of the line car from Honda and it really just feels like hot trash now..

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

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Post by NotSammyHagar » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 5:40 AM UTC

base698 wrote: post #231

newsoul2019 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was close to buying a used Tesla from Tesla, but this is making me pause. Am I being unreasonable? I live in the Bay Area where I feel like the only person without a Tesla or two.

I bought a Model S last year and around the time of weedgate I decided the risk was too great and sold the car. It seems from the used market that the value has plummeted. The one I bought is easy $40k less just a year old. Repairs and parts availability is one of the biggest risks. Could easily see situations where a small fender bender causes a total loss.

a lot of cars rapidly depreciate in the first year. A model S losing almost half its value in a year or so is no incredible shock.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

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Post by epistasis » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 5:40 AM UTC

sheeshkebab wrote: post #88

moduspol wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The car, the service, the people, all of it is on a whole higher plane of satisfaction. It feels like the transition from a flip phone to an iPhone in 2008. Same here. This is how I describe it to other people.

I’m using cars to move me and family from point a to b, the less of service and Tesla people I ever see, the better - and if I ever need to get those things, the faster they get the parts and fix it, the happier I am, as most other car owners I’m sure. In other words, I don’t get the whole Tesla club thing for basically a glorified metal bucket. Although for some odd reason I do want Tesla to be my next car.

That's what cars were to me too, until I got a Fiat 500e, and it became fun a fun way to do A to B. Which is the only reason I splurged on a german-made "luxury" car afterwards.

I still never want to see service people, or deal with service, and definitely never want to interact with a sales person ever again. Tesla is the best at making that happen. And that A to B is more enjoyable too. It really sounds like you'd be very happy if you bought a Tesla, assuming it's in the budget.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

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Post by kohtatsu » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 5:41 AM UTC

sorenjan wrote: post #105

cmer wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think pretty much every single person who owns a Model S/X would tell you that they're never going back to the old German crew. Tesla enjoys the strongest brand loyalty of any car manufacturer. Apple-like loyalty. Tesla doesn't feel like a toy, it feels like the future. They're years ahead of everybody else in terms of tech that is usable today.

Have you seen this thread [0] that's supposedly about their backend? Doesn't sound like years ahead, it sounds like an overstretched software startup chasing the latest silicon valley trends. How well will their cars work in 20 years? Will they have sorted out the service issues in five years? Besides, when the other car manufacturers starts putting out electric cars with interiors that consists of more than a cost s…

Wait–let subcontrators worry about developing state-of-the-art capabilities for them?

FWIW I think they should be way more conservative with how they advertise Autopilot, but the only way something like that is getting shipped at this stage is from in-house.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

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Post by whamlastxmas » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 5:41 AM UTC

ulfw wrote: post #281

taneq wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's actually a very good point - Tesla's current "halo car" isn't the Model S or the Roadster 2.0, it's the Falcon Heavy.

Is it? Do people buy a $100K Tesla because the same owner owns a rocket company? Why? I’ve never met anyone who considered a Rolls because the company used to build aircraft engines

Rolls definitely have a prestige factor due to their aircraft engines. And personally when I see Tesla hardware and tech I admire the level of engineering that goes into it and feel that part of the reason it's so good is because there's many shared competencies between the two companies

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

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Post by camjohnson26 » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 5:41 AM UTC

taneq wrote: post #262

radium3d wrote: post #252

Seasonal 4th to 1st quarter may have been a loss but these numbers stand out to me as being a bit more important. Cars sold: Q1 2019: 63,000 Q1 2018: 29,980 Q1 2017: 25,000 Q1 2016: 14,820 Q1 2015: 10,045 Q1 2014: 6,457 Q1 2013: 4,900 Q1 2012: 0 Revenue Q1 2019: $4.5 billion Q1 2018: $3.4 billion Q1 2017: $2.7 billion Q1 2016: $1.6 billion Q1 2015: $1.1 billion Q1 2014: $713 million Q1 2013: $562 million Q1 2012: $30…

Maybe the "Q1 was a huge loss" thing is more that, for the first time, they're not having to game the quarterly results in order to make it look good? At which point they've just focused on continuing to scale the company, attracting investors be damned?

They massively cut cap ex spending to the point that net of depreciation it’s basically zero. This means that without a capital raise they don’t have the money to launch model Y, roadster, semi, pickup, or any other product they’ve announced.

Elon Musk on the conference call sounded open to raising money for the first time in years, and for good reason. Their cash balance is beyond alarming and their growth has painfully and obviously stalled. Demand for model s and x was way down in Q1, as anyone who was paying attention could have told you, and contrary to what Tesla says Q2 so far looks like more of the same.

Don’t forget that just 2 months ago Musk was guiding for a small loss or possibly, with luck, a tiny profit. Instead they had a loss 4 times worse than analysts estimates, which were already cut massively. A loss so big it basically wiped out the last 2 profitable quarters. In Q4 last year Musk said he thought they could be profitable in all quarters going forward, obviously Tesla isn’t there yet.