Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#261

Post by Diederich » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 4:55 AM UTC

hi5eyes wrote: post #198

DarmokJalad1701 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> usually battery life drops Tests have shown that is not really that big of a factor. E.g. https://cleantechnica.com/2019/01/28/350000-miles-in-a-tesla... https://electrek.co/2017/09/04/how-tesla-model-s-holds-up-ti...

I expected replies to my comment with links to those sites, you do know how hard they shill tesla right? only recently elons been reeing at the very author of that elektrik article https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1120820597347377152 >@FredericLambert Also, how did you manage to get shamed into being de facto anti-Tesla by social media trolls. Jeez … but.. im sure the numbers are thoroughly researched...

Well, here is one bit of data then.

The Tesla model S 100D I bought in December 2017 now has over 17,000 miles on it, with 95% of those miles fast supercharged.

My max range has declined 2 miles. That's well under 1%, which is especially impressive given that most battery capability loss happens in the beginning of it's lifespan.

How? Well, I suppose the battery management software and hardware is as advanced as is claimed.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#262

Post by taneq » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 4:56 AM UTC

radium3d wrote: post #252

Seasonal 4th to 1st quarter may have been a loss but these numbers stand out to me as being a bit more important. Cars sold: Q1 2019: 63,000 Q1 2018: 29,980 Q1 2017: 25,000 Q1 2016: 14,820 Q1 2015: 10,045 Q1 2014: 6,457 Q1 2013: 4,900 Q1 2012: 0 Revenue Q1 2019: $4.5 billion Q1 2018: $3.4 billion Q1 2017: $2.7 billion Q1 2016: $1.6 billion Q1 2015: $1.1 billion Q1 2014: $713 million Q1 2013: $562 million Q1 2012: $30…

Maybe the "Q1 was a huge loss" thing is more that, for the first time, they're not having to game the quarterly results in order to make it look good? At which point they've just focused on continuing to scale the company, attracting investors be damned?

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#263

Post by frankchn » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 4:56 AM UTC

moduspol wrote: post #62

epistasis wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never been super convinced by Tesla even after test driving, and was fairly happy with my German made car. But I had to make a change recently for a family-friendlier car and wanted electric now so got a Model 3. Now, I'm fully convinced by Tesla in every way and am never ever going back to dealerships. The car, the service, the people, all of it is on a whole higher plane of satisfaction. It feels like the tran…

> The car, the service, the people, all of it is on a whole higher plane of satisfaction. It feels like the transition from a flip phone to an iPhone in 2008. Same here. This is how I describe it to other people.

Could that lead be maintained? It was a big jump from a BlackBerry to an original iPhone, but is there one from a Pixel 3 to an iPhone XS?

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#264

Post by Element_ » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 4:56 AM UTC

Geee wrote: post #64

DamnYuppie wrote: post #10

I see this trend continuing for Tesla. Aside from Musk's leadership, which is very polarizing, I don't see their cars as being very compelling compared to the upcoming offerings of Audi and Porsche. Tesla isn't really competing against Ford/Chevy/Honda/Toyota. Instead they are competing against BMW/Mercedes/Porsche/Audi. By comparison Teslas seems like a toy compared to those other brands so I will gladly wait and gi…

Tesla is years ahead and is innovating faster, so how can they catch it? For example Audi E-tron has just 200 miles of range vs. the new Model S with 370 miles with a same size battery.

I believe the Audi E-tron is built on a traditional chassis to allow assembly on the same line as an internal combustion version. There is probably no way it could compete with a car designed for electric from the ground up (Tesla's). I think the real competition from VW is their upcoming "ID" platform.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#265

Post by dayaz36 » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 4:58 AM UTC

S_A_P wrote: post #14

As someone who does not have any stake in Tesla, I dont see a path forward for them without a company with the bank account on the scale of Apple/Google/Amazon funding them. Bootstrapping software is hard, hardware is harder, cars are 10x harder than those squared...

We've been hearing this since the company's inception. There was even a website back in 2008 with a time clock of when Tesla will go bankrupt. Ironically the site went bankrupt and is not around anymore. Meanwhile Tesla has become a multi billion dollar company with the largest BEV fleet in the world. Tesla has done this in the face of a constant onslaught of smears from the media and social media comments like yours.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#266

Post by iabacu » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 4:58 AM UTC

kalleboo wrote: post #215

epistasis wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never been super convinced by Tesla even after test driving, and was fairly happy with my German made car. But I had to make a change recently for a family-friendlier car and wanted electric now so got a Model 3. Now, I'm fully convinced by Tesla in every way and am never ever going back to dealerships. The car, the service, the people, all of it is on a whole higher plane of satisfaction. It feels like the tran…

> It feels like the transition from a flip phone to an iPhone in 2008. It seems like the analogy is very apt. Lots of people pointing out flaws with Tesla's cars and saying that when the incumbents make it into the market they will squash them. Same thing happened with the iPhone - it didn't have multitasking, copy/paste, mms (all things that even standard dumbphones had). Nokia, Blackberry are huge Apple has no chan…

Tesla needs a “Tim Cook”

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#267

Post by sytelus » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 4:59 AM UTC

ProfessorLayton wrote: post #81

Tesla's 1.5B reduction of cash on hand was largely due to the 920M convertible bond payment — but that only happened because TSLA didn't perform to the level necessary for conversion (~$360 IIRC). I wonder what changes in terms this'll warrant for future capital raises. Then they mention that they missed a lot of revenue due to missing half their shipments overseas, and onto Q2 (But also expecting a loss in Q2). Sale…

There is a definitely path forward for Tesla. They needs to be 1908 Model-T but for EVs of 2019. This means only two things: (1) aggressively lower the manufacturing cost and, (2) scale the battery production. I want to see Tesla that costs $18K and has a range of 300 miles. This would turn auto-industry upside down. I think this is completely doable.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#268

Post by iamaelephant » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 5:00 AM UTC

sytelus wrote: post #267

ProfessorLayton wrote: post #81

Tesla's 1.5B reduction of cash on hand was largely due to the 920M convertible bond payment — but that only happened because TSLA didn't perform to the level necessary for conversion (~$360 IIRC). I wonder what changes in terms this'll warrant for future capital raises. Then they mention that they missed a lot of revenue due to missing half their shipments overseas, and onto Q2 (But also expecting a loss in Q2). Sale…

There is a definitely path forward for Tesla. They needs to be 1908 Model-T but for EVs of 2019. This means only two things: (1) aggressively lower the manufacturing cost and, (2) scale the battery production. I want to see Tesla that costs $18K and has a range of 300 miles. This would turn auto-industry upside down. I think this is completely doable.

Why would this be doable for Tesla but not every other car manufacturer?

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#269

Post by dayaz36 » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 5:01 AM UTC

DamnYuppie wrote: post #10

I see this trend continuing for Tesla. Aside from Musk's leadership, which is very polarizing, I don't see their cars as being very compelling compared to the upcoming offerings of Audi and Porsche. Tesla isn't really competing against Ford/Chevy/Honda/Toyota. Instead they are competing against BMW/Mercedes/Porsche/Audi. By comparison Teslas seems like a toy compared to those other brands so I will gladly wait and gi…

I feel sorry for anyone dumb enough to believe your garbage propaganda against Tesla.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#270

Post by nradov » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 5:01 AM UTC

taneq wrote: post #255

sliken wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find the Panasonic thing very weird. Tesla claims to be battery limited, and also mentioned that their popular and in demand power walls are being throttled by lack of batteries. Does make me wonder. Is Panasonic blackmailing Tesla with limited supply to influence Tesla's battery supply in China? Is Panasonic and/or Tesla lying about the situation?

They may just be taking a calmer view of EV demand rather than betting the farm at every turn like Tesla. One or two quarters of running at capacity on a brand new factory isn't enough reason to massively upgrade your production capacity, if you think it's just a hump and that demand will settle down again. The Model 3 may be "affordable" compared with the Model S / X, but US$35k is still luxury car territory.

Just to be pedantic, in the US market $35K is technically the low end of premium car territory. Actually luxury car territory starts significant higher.