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Changes to Models S and X allow them to travel longer without larger batteries

tesla.com

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Re: Changes to Models S and X allow them to travel longer without larger batteries

#491

Post by prklmn »

mjamesaustin wrote: post #465
kmlx wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

isn’t Panasonic the ones that provide all of the batteries that end up in Teslas? my understanding is that Panasonic has been losing money so they’ve started scaling back production. which lead to Musk taking shots at them.

Panasonic isn't scaling back production. Tesla is the one who refused to approve additional scaling up because Panasonic hasn't been able to reach the promised production rate with their existing capacity.

> Nikkei said that Panasonic “froze” a decision to put an additional $900 million to $1.35 billion of investment into the Nevada Gigafactory in a bid to “reduce its dependence on the automaker.” Tesla is Panasonic’s biggest customer for electric vehicle batteries, and the Japanese battery maker had already suffered millions in losses due to the slower-than-expected ramp-up of Model 3 production.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/11/18305976/tesla-panasonic-...

Re: Changes to Models S and X allow them to travel longer without larger batteries

#492

Post by rconti »

fumar wrote: post #478
rconti wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sold my 2016 Golf R around the same time we picked up the 3. I actually was pleasantly surprised by the quality of the 3, to be honest. Maybe my expectations were low-ish because I spend a fair bit of time in a Model S, but I really thought they did a good job of stepping up and making the interior relatively premium. Where cars like the R feel 'premium' to me is how they glow at night. The interior just felt REALL…

I am swaying between the Golf R MK 7.5 and the Dual Motor M3. I have a 2017 lease right now. I agree with you that the M3 will get me from point a to b with enhanced auto pilot features and no CO2 output, but I am afraid of missing out on the joy of driving. I recently moved to LA and my time in vehicle has increased by 3x. Which means both vehicles have increased pros and cons. Do you miss having the hatchback? That…

Miss having the hatchback? Not really. I just think sedans are stupid, and less attractive than hatchbacks. But the 3 carries FAR more than the golf could ever hope to. The trunk is a bit difficult to close, which is an issue I have on lots of sedans (really stiff at the top, requires too much force to slam shut because it doesn't have the mass of a hatch).

I love driving the 3, and ours is an RWD LR with the 18" eco crap tires. I can't say I miss driving the R, but I miss the way it looks and having that unique car that I'm passionate about, and I really enjoyed having a manual transmission.

I have a manual sports car as well, but you know what, I always choose the 3 when I need to go run an errand, so maybe that's all you need to know. Just about the only time I've driven my sports car in the past year is 2 track days. Hardly any street miles.

Re: Changes to Models S and X allow them to travel longer without larger batteries

#493

Post by [deleted] »

codeulike wrote: post #244

Compare to the Audi e-Tron, which has a fairly massive 95kWH battery but only scores 204 miles of EPA range. They claim they're only using 88% of the battery capacity so that charging is faster and battery longevity is preserved, but thats a really weird engineering decision that belies the fact they have made a terribly inefficient (and perhaps rapidly degrading?) battery pack/drivetrain. Meanwhile the base Model S,…

[deleted]

Re: Changes to Models S and X allow them to travel longer without larger batteries

#494

Post by thehappypm »

jonknee wrote: post #436
jfoster wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depreciation for any given trip will never be anywhere near the price of a plane ticket or two, though.

Why not? These are really expensive cars (especially Model S and X). An $80,000 car that has a life of 500,000 miles is $.16 a mile. This hypothetical NY to Miami trip is 1,300 miles one way. If you do no driving in Miami that's 2600 miles or $416 in depreciation if all miles counted the same (they don't, the first miles depreciate things a lot more). You can easily get a plane ticket for that, two if you look around…

I flew Providence to Miami for $25 each way last year on Frontier. Even factoring in the cost of parking at the airport and the extra hour of driving time from Boston, I spent less than $100. So, yeah, flying can be super cheap.

Re: Changes to Models S and X allow them to travel longer without larger batteries

#495

Post by archi42 »

war1025 wrote: post #474
windexh8er wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's probably order of magnitude fewer parts to break. According to Tesla a comparative ICE drivetrain will have around 200 moving parts, while one of their vehicles will have roughly 17. The real upside is longevity. While it is a miraculous feat that machines, such as transmissions, last as long as they do today - they're not needed in electric vehicles. I think it's fair to assume we all expect 100k miles and…

Modern cars can easily go 200k+ miles without any major repairs other than tires / brakes / suspension.

And various belts replaced, fluids changed, ignition plugs swapped, starters break, climate compressor (or its clutch) sometimes break... Also turbos, [automatic] transmissions and [manual] clutches are prone to cause trouble. Electric systems might misbehave due to wear and tear on cables. And with 200k+ miles on a modern small car, I would really worry for the engine (here in the EU cars tend to have less cc). Not to mention the hunt for the actual defect. (Source: I am at ~200k miles/326kkm and used to fix a lot myself).

Re: Changes to Models S and X allow them to travel longer without larger batteries

#496

Post by [deleted] »

Isinlor wrote: post #378
navigatesol wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Independent researchers have already proven Musk to be 100% right about LIDAR. Well, you better let all the other smart people doing this work know! They're all doomed! Why do you think it's one or the other-neural nets and LIDAR-, and not both? The more sensors the better.

Look at the dates of the papers I linked. The quote: Approaches based on cheaper monocular or stereo imagery data have, until now, resulted in drastically lower accuracies --- a gap that is commonly attributed to poor image-based depth estimation. However, in this paper we argue that data representation (rather than its quality) accounts for the majority of the difference. Is from December 2018. Your knowledge of wha…

[deleted]

Re: Changes to Models S and X allow them to travel longer without larger batteries

#497

Post by [deleted] »

cperciva wrote: post #62
jac_no_k wrote: post #15

This "continuous deployment" for cars must be a logistical nightmare. To do repairs for a given vehicle, keeping track of what parts are backward compatible would be challenging. What if it's a compatibility breaking change? Then keeping inventory for older cars would become problematic. Unless they do design with maximum compatibility. Then it gets interesting as upgrades are possible. While B.EV cars maintenance is…

Is it any worse than what other manufacturers deal with? The 2019 Honda Accord shares some parts with the 2018 Honda Accord which shares some parts with the 2017 model... when something breaks in my Honda the first question is "do they still make/use this part or did they change it in newer models?"

[deleted]

Re: Changes to Models S and X allow them to travel longer without larger batteries

#498

Post by DeonPenny »

jakobegger wrote: post #199
DeonPenny wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have very few moving parts. I am guessing they are switching battery pack modules out so it's not that hard. Theres battery packs, motos and basically thats it.

There are a lot of moving parts in the suspension, the transmission, the battery cooling system, the AC, the power windows, power steering, all the other comfort features like electric seats, electric tailgate, ... Just because it doesn't need an oil change doesn't mean that it doesn't need service.

Theres no transmission, the battery cooling system isn't a moving part, the AC has one moving part, power windows have 1 moving parts, power steering have one moving part, electric components aren't moving parts.

Moving parts are mechanical parts, electronic, and pumps because of simplicity work for longer.

Re: Changes to Models S and X allow them to travel longer without larger batteries

#499

Post by war1025 »

archi42 wrote: post #495
war1025 wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modern cars can easily go 200k+ miles without any major repairs other than tires / brakes / suspension.

And various belts replaced, fluids changed, ignition plugs swapped, starters break, climate compressor (or its clutch) sometimes break... Also turbos, [automatic] transmissions and [manual] clutches are prone to cause trouble. Electric systems might misbehave due to wear and tear on cables. And with 200k+ miles on a modern small car, I would really worry for the engine (here in the EU cars tend to have less cc). Not…

Our 2006 Honda Civic (1.8L engine, which at least in the US counts as a very small engine) just rolled over 200k miles a month or two ago.

We've had the car for 7 years and probably 80k of those miles. We had to get the brakes and tires replaced very early on, and have just done a second round of replacing both within the past 6 months. We needed a new muffler and starter last summer. A week ago, we replaced the front struts. I put in new spark plugs and O2 sensors this past month, mainly because they seemed like easy things to swap out and cheap insurance against them going bad down the line. We get the tires rotated and oil changed every 6k miles. Have replaced the transmission fluid once.

So yes, more than nothing, but doing maintenance two or three times a year for a total of maybe $3k over the time we've had the vehicle seems quite reasonable.

I was talking with the sales guy when I picked the car up on our most recent visit, and he commented that he had a Civic that he sold a couple years ago when it had 350k miles, and the guy he sold it to is still using it as his daily driver.

Modern cars, particularly the ones out of Asia, have extremely reliable engines and drivetrains. Worry about a car with 100k miles being near the end of its life is outdated. I would trust a well maintained car from the past 15 years to 250k miles and probably beyond.

Re: Changes to Models S and X allow them to travel longer without larger batteries

#500

Post by Duladian »

Shivetya wrote: post #258
codeulike wrote: post #244

Compare to the Audi e-Tron, which has a fairly massive 95kWH battery but only scores 204 miles of EPA range. They claim they're only using 88% of the battery capacity so that charging is faster and battery longevity is preserved, but thats a really weird engineering decision that belies the fact they have made a terribly inefficient (and perhaps rapidly degrading?) battery pack/drivetrain. Meanwhile the base Model S,…

A few observations, before I derail I do not want to dismiss the efforts of Audi or Jaguar but I think their initial focus was being good examples for their respective brands with regards to their packaging. Their interior quality of a different generation and caliber than Tesla. The EV part was an important concern but secondary. They can still rack up significant ZEV credits in California letting them off the hook…

Slight derailing again.

1997-1999 GM EV1 Gen 1 & 2 (leased for 1 year at a time with 3 different cars), 2001 Ford Ranger EV, 2003 Toyota Rav4 EV, 2010 Nissan Leaf, 2011 Chevy Volt, and 2017 Chevy Bolt. These vehicles were owned in the household I was living in at some point.

With this being said, I've ridden in a Model 3. It is by far one of the noisiest electric vehicles I've seen.

For anyone curious, the GM EV1 was by far my favorite. Those were years ahead of their time.

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