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Changes to Models S and X allow them to travel longer without larger batteries

tesla.com

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Re: Changes to Models S and X allow them to travel longer without larger batteries

#271

Post by quanticle »

ajuc wrote: post #260
Shivetya wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few observations, before I derail I do not want to dismiss the efforts of Audi or Jaguar but I think their initial focus was being good examples for their respective brands with regards to their packaging. Their interior quality of a different generation and caliber than Tesla. The EV part was an important concern but secondary. They can still rack up significant ZEV credits in California letting them off the hook…

> EVs don't need the large established dealership base and their included maintenance facilities I never understood that. Why does power source matter in the context of dealership base and maintenance? EVs still break.

They break at much much lower rates, because they have many fewer parts. EVs don't have the pistons, valves, belts, fans, compressors, alternators, spark plugs, etc that gasoline engines have. There's probably order of magnitude fewer parts to break.

Having seen the interior of an automatic gearbox, the surprising thing to me is that conventional automobiles are as reliable as they are.

Re: Changes to Models S and X allow them to travel longer without larger batteries

#272

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

codeulike wrote: post #250
tim333 wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>...88% of the battery capacity...weird engineering decision Musk was talking about existing packs lasting 400,000 miles and working on new ones that will do 1 million. You can't get those sort of life spans if you use the full cycle - think how long your phone battery lasts.

Car batteries are not much like phone batteries. A car battery pack is a system in itself, with thousands of small cells supported by cooling, heating, monitoring and balancing systems. edit: there are recommendations for Tesla daily use that say go to 90% most of the time. But still a bit different to putting 12% completely out of reach like Audi have done.

Apparently the max charge percentage is user configurable, see https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/set-charge-limit.131...

Re: Changes to Models S and X allow them to travel longer without larger batteries

#273

Post by SmellyGeekBoy »

ajuc wrote: post #260
Shivetya wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few observations, before I derail I do not want to dismiss the efforts of Audi or Jaguar but I think their initial focus was being good examples for their respective brands with regards to their packaging. Their interior quality of a different generation and caliber than Tesla. The EV part was an important concern but secondary. They can still rack up significant ZEV credits in California letting them off the hook…

> EVs don't need the large established dealership base and their included maintenance facilities I never understood that. Why does power source matter in the context of dealership base and maintenance? EVs still break.

Less wear on brakes due to regenerative braking. No clutch, which is another wear item. No regular fluid / plug changes like ICE engines (and far fewer moving parts to go wrong generally). Essentially all you're left with are wipers and tyres, which don't really require a specialist / main dealer.

Re: Changes to Models S and X allow them to travel longer without larger batteries

#274

Post by SmellyGeekBoy »

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #253
bronco21016 wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure they would risk lying about their EPA tested mileage rating after the VW scandal. It would surely mean the end of Tesla.

just how it was the end of VW?...

VW have a lot more money in the bank and the support of the German government, two things that Tesla don't have.

Re: Changes to Models S and X allow them to travel longer without larger batteries

#275

Post by tgb »

bishopknight wrote: post #252
tim333 wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>...88% of the battery capacity...weird engineering decision Musk was talking about existing packs lasting 400,000 miles and working on new ones that will do 1 million. You can't get those sort of life spans if you use the full cycle - think how long your phone battery lasts.

So it's optimal to not fully cycle batteries then? It's better to keep them mid charged and top them off?

Yes, the Battery University is my favorite reference for this stuff, see this page for example: https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_l...

Re: Changes to Models S and X allow them to travel longer without larger batteries

#276

Post by Shivetya »

ajuc wrote: post #260
Shivetya wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few observations, before I derail I do not want to dismiss the efforts of Audi or Jaguar but I think their initial focus was being good examples for their respective brands with regards to their packaging. Their interior quality of a different generation and caliber than Tesla. The EV part was an important concern but secondary. They can still rack up significant ZEV credits in California letting them off the hook…

> EVs don't need the large established dealership base and their included maintenance facilities I never understood that. Why does power source matter in the context of dealership base and maintenance? EVs still break.

Service intervals are very limited. Let me use my Model 3 as an example, I only need tire rotations until 25,000 miles. At that point I need the cabin and HVAC air filters replaced, then 25k later I do it again.

Not only will dealership service centers be impacted, oil change shops will have little work if any as the number of petrol cars wind down, general service shops face the same issue as the numbers decline.

Now there are jobs that will become important similar to how renewable energy solutions ended some jobs and made new. Electricians for business and home needs will increase because of both industries.

Re: Changes to Models S and X allow them to travel longer without larger batteries

#277

Post by coolgoose »

SmellyGeekBoy wrote: post #273
ajuc wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> EVs don't need the large established dealership base and their included maintenance facilities I never understood that. Why does power source matter in the context of dealership base and maintenance? EVs still break.

Less wear on brakes due to regenerative braking. No clutch, which is another wear item. No regular fluid / plug changes like ICE engines (and far fewer moving parts to go wrong generally). Essentially all you're left with are wipers and tyres, which don't really require a specialist / main dealer.

Well, depends on where you live. A lot o wear on my break calipers are from really shitty and sandy places :)

Re: Changes to Models S and X allow them to travel longer without larger batteries

#278

Post by SmellyGeekBoy »

jac_no_k wrote: post #15

This "continuous deployment" for cars must be a logistical nightmare. To do repairs for a given vehicle, keeping track of what parts are backward compatible would be challenging. What if it's a compatibility breaking change? Then keeping inventory for older cars would become problematic. Unless they do design with maximum compatibility. Then it gets interesting as upgrades are possible. While B.EV cars maintenance is…

This is true for all manufacturers. I've owned "changeover year" cars from various manufacturers that had parts from both the older and newer revisions, very occasionally resulting in a garage ordering the wrong part leading to a delay. This isn't a Tesla-specific issue.

Re: Changes to Models S and X allow them to travel longer without larger batteries

#279

Post by braythwayt »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #207
hunter2_ wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just like PIN number, ATM machine, CAC card, and "is that a work PC or personal?" It's a very typical construction, for whatever reason.

At least you use LED as a noun. In Poland, I constantly hear people saying "LED diode". I keep correcting this and "PIN number" indiscriminately.

See also, “-gate” for scandals.

Re: Changes to Models S and X allow them to travel longer without larger batteries

#280

Post by asmosoinio »

Shivetya wrote: post #276
ajuc wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> EVs don't need the large established dealership base and their included maintenance facilities I never understood that. Why does power source matter in the context of dealership base and maintenance? EVs still break.

Service intervals are very limited. Let me use my Model 3 as an example, I only need tire rotations until 25,000 miles. At that point I need the cabin and HVAC air filters replaced, then 25k later I do it again. Not only will dealership service centers be impacted, oil change shops will have little work if any as the number of petrol cars wind down, general service shops face the same issue as the numbers decline. No…

That's not super different from long lasting oil? Some Petrol cars do 30'000km without and service?
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