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Changes to Models S and X allow them to travel longer without larger batteries

tesla.com

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Re: Changes to Models S and X allow them to travel longer without larger batteries

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it any worse than what other manufacturers deal with? The 2019 Honda Accord shares some parts with the 2018 Honda Accord which shares some parts with the 2017 model... when something breaks in my Honda the first question is "do they still make/use this part or did they change it in newer models?"

I’ve had a couple of American cars and apparently year-by-year or even in the same model year the manufacturer changes the location of certain parts, which I didn’t expect. Mechanics and I have had trouble finding various parts like fan relays and cabin air filters.

Mid year ECR's to fix problems are not uncommon, but tend to be fairly minor.

What source are you using for where a part is placed? I've seen similar things (relay is under drivers dash, when it reality its under the passenger seat or some nonsense like that) when using crappy documentation (chiltons, or similar which does a "teardown" on a single year and then sells it for the entire generation). I can't remember seeing these kinds of errors in actual manufacture/dealer shop manuals.

Re: Changes to Models S and X allow them to travel longer without larger batteries

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd bet that the TPMS (tire pressure monitor/sensor) in the wheels is an off the shelf component purchased from a top-10 supplier in the automotive industry, and the problem was as simple as not having the TPMS programmed for the car. This is the same problem you can encounter if you replace all four TPMS in most any medium to high end car manufactured after about 2006, and the tire shop forgets to use their handheld…

This sort of complexity is why I like pre smog era cars

Cars like other pieces of technology are gradual. Its pretty easy to pick up a 90's era car with electronic fuel injection and spark advance while still having a fairly simple emissions system, and actual relays and mechanical buttons to turn on things like cruise control.

If that is to much, you can go back to the early 90's or late 80's for systems where only injectors are electronic and based solely on a couple simple sensors (mas air, or o2 sensor) and things like spark advance are still done in with a distributor + vacuum. Its all a question of what you want to tolerate, but the advantages of EFI+electronic spark advance or VVT are immense for both reliability and efficiency.

Re: Changes to Models S and X allow them to travel longer without larger batteries

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right to repair isn't just about J. Schmoe in their garage though. You also have to consider other shops that are well qualified to do the repairs.

I've also been in "professional" shops where the qualification is questionable, but I understand your argument. There are Tesla Certified body shops; we'll see how the workload shakes out between those facilities and Tesla Service centers. Tesla recently updated their service intervals for all vehicle models due to fleet data showing less service was required than previously indicated [1]. How many times have you see…

Many auto makers have moved their oil change intervals out to 10,000 miles when they've previously pushed 3 or 5.

Re: Changes to Models S and X allow them to travel longer without larger batteries

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd bet that the TPMS (tire pressure monitor/sensor) in the wheels is an off the shelf component purchased from a top-10 supplier in the automotive industry, and the problem was as simple as not having the TPMS programmed for the car. This is the same problem you can encounter if you replace all four TPMS in most any medium to high end car manufactured after about 2006, and the tire shop forgets to use their handheld…

This sort of complexity is why I like pre smog era cars

In other words, let’s kill off people [0] from air pollution so car maintenance can be simpler.

0: http://www.prevenzione.ulss20.verona.it/docs/Sisp/Inquinamen...

Re: Changes to Models S and X allow them to travel longer without larger batteries

#117
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Came here to post this exact excerpt. That’s a heck of a customer loyalty bonus, even if the margin on that particular SKU is itself quite ludicrous!

Alternative view: they’re desperate to get more high margin model S and X sales because owners are keeping their existing models too long.

Well, lets entertain this idea for a minute and see where it takes us.

First understand that the Ludicrous upgrade is only available on the Performance Model S/X which is $99k/$104k to start. There are two possible upsells here, from TM3 to Model S, or from a more basic grade of S to an upgraded Model S.

There are very few people who set out to buy a $35k car and then consider the TCO of the TM3 as comparable and decide to go for it. I think the hypothetical TM3 shopper being upsold to a $99k S to get free Ludi is basically non-existant. Upselling AWD or maybe Model 3 Performance, but not a Performance S.

Now, someone setting out to buy a $78k Model S, and deciding to upgrade to a $99k Model S is conceivable. Getting the Ludicrous option thrown in maybe even makes that likely.

So what's the profit impact to Tesla for selling a baseline Model S for $78k with no discount, versus a Model S Performance with a Free Ludicrous upgrade?

Gross margin of the S is ~30%. For giggles I'll assume gross margin of the Ludicrous upgrade is 50%. The hypothetical customer taking advantage of this offer is spending $99k and earning Tesla a profit of $19,700 ($29,700 - $10,000) versus without the offer getting a $78k Model S and earning Tesla $23,400.

Lastly there is the theory that an existing Model S/X owner decides to buy a new Model S/X because now they can get a Ludi upgrade. Well, you probably don't know that Tesla already lets current owners upgrade their existing Model S/X with Ludi aftermarket for $7,500. You can even upgrade your battery for $20,000.

I'd say this alternative view is bunk. Tesla grows by selling to new owners, and has said they design their cars with 1,000,000 miles in mind. Tesla goes further than any auto manufacturer in history to maintain the value of their existing owners' investment through constant OTA upgrades, even including increasing motor output, decreasing braking distance, and they have a system design geared toward field upgradable hardware including batteries and autopilot hardware.

When was the last time you walked into a dealer with your late-model car and they had a list of upgrades they could sell you for it, to bring it inline with the same car on the showroom floor? Tesla has been doing this with their Model S at various times throughout its history.

Their success is not tied to existing owners replacing their Tesla with a new one. It's actually quite the opposite. Part of Tesla's core value proposition is that every owner should feel like they are driving the latest and greatest, and their incentive is aligned to keep you driving it as long as possible. It's part of why they don't have model years in the first place.

Re: Changes to Models S and X allow them to travel longer without larger batteries

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are Tesla owners really this sensitive? I mean they do have prototypes out there, it's not like they're making up what the mileage is, they clearly have demoed that it works, it's just about producing the vehicles now.

> it's just about producing the vehicles now. That is the hardest part, and all that matters. Anyone can make one concept car. Not everyone can make hundreds of thousands of them per year.

> Not everyone can make hundreds of thousands of them per year.

Neither can Tesla.

Re: Changes to Models S and X allow them to travel longer without larger batteries

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it any worse than what other manufacturers deal with? The 2019 Honda Accord shares some parts with the 2018 Honda Accord which shares some parts with the 2017 model... when something breaks in my Honda the first question is "do they still make/use this part or did they change it in newer models?"

I’ve had a couple of American cars and apparently year-by-year or even in the same model year the manufacturer changes the location of certain parts, which I didn’t expect. Mechanics and I have had trouble finding various parts like fan relays and cabin air filters.

This is pretty common. My 2017 and 2019 Jeep Grand Cherokee had small differences. My 2000 E46 also had small differences including having an Iron block that was switched to an Aluminum block. Not to mention small design choices like knobs, switches, and buttons.

Dont you want manufacturers to fix something mid production if they find an issue?

Re: Changes to Models S and X allow them to travel longer without larger batteries

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's just about producing the vehicles now. That is the hardest part, and all that matters. Anyone can make one concept car. Not everyone can make hundreds of thousands of them per year.

> Not everyone can make hundreds of thousands of them per year. Neither can Tesla.

> Tesla's global sales since 2012 totaled over 532,000 units at the end of 2018, of which, over 245,000 were delivered in 2018, up almost 138% from 2017. Year over year Tesla U.S. vehicle sales from 2017 to 2018 increased by 280% from 48,000 to 182,400.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla,_Inc.

> Our best estimate is that Tesla has manufactured 239,844 Model 3s so far—or 21,231 in the current quarter—and is now building approximately 5,884 a week. Those figures, and the charts below, represent Bloomberg’s latest estimates and will automatically update to reflect changes in the data. (Last update: April 23rd, 2019)

Assuming a conservative build rate of 5k units per week, that's 260k Model 3 units being built per year. This does not include S and X units.

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-tesla-tracker/

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