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Rich countries tend to have a bigger middle-class, except the USA

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Re: Rich countries tend to have a bigger middle-class, except the USA

#171

Post by wildmusings »

scarmig wrote: post #112
tristor wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably since you're posting on this site you have a marketable skillset in a high demand field, which means you can enjoy a lucrative career and through making good decisions have significant retirement savings so you can afford to eat normally. Maybe you meant that you want that existence for others, in which case, you might have a point, but I think a lot of the people who have your worries in the tech industry…

Maybe not the retirement so much, but a medical issue can easily lead to bankruptcy, even when you have seven figures in assets.

If you have insurance—which someone with “seven figures in assets” should—then that is not a risk. Of course, insurance will only pay for so much. At some point of diminishing returns, they will cut you off. Just like any healthcare system in the world will. You can always spend more money for a tiny chance of living longer.

Re: Rich countries tend to have a bigger middle-class, except the USA

#172

Post by dblotsky »

acchow wrote: post #16
dblotsky wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they might also spend more of that money on things that are free in Europe.

There should be data available for distributions of income including government transfers. But I would expect that the median for US would still be faring much better than the median for France.

Based on what data would you expect that?

Re: Rich countries tend to have a bigger middle-class, except the USA

#173

Post by rayiner »

hackeraccount wrote: post #168
runako wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You obviously know this, but for those who are not familiar with America, regarding #2 above, the experience in the US is vastly different from other rich countries. > The lower threshold for the U.S. is $23,416 PPP-adjusted 2010 dollars per year. A person that makes this in the US usually will not receive health insurance at work. Depending on the specifics of the person's demographics/state/income, a worker at the…

Wait. Hold on. You're acting like Medicaid doesn't exist. Firstly I bet that in most states if you're making $23,000 a year don't make enough for the ACA not too much so that you end up on Medicaid.

ACA subsidizes coverage from the Medicaid line up to well above the median income. For example, for an individual making $23,000, premiums are capped at 4-6% of income. (Which is, incidentally, lower than the health insurance tax in Germany, which is 15.5%, with the employer covering half.)

Re: Rich countries tend to have a bigger middle-class, except the USA

#174

Post by runako »

hackeraccount wrote: post #168
runako wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You obviously know this, but for those who are not familiar with America, regarding #2 above, the experience in the US is vastly different from other rich countries. > The lower threshold for the U.S. is $23,416 PPP-adjusted 2010 dollars per year. A person that makes this in the US usually will not receive health insurance at work. Depending on the specifics of the person's demographics/state/income, a worker at the…

Wait. Hold on. You're acting like Medicaid doesn't exist. Firstly I bet that in most states if you're making $23,000 a year don't make enough for the ACA not too much so that you end up on Medicaid.

I specifically didn't go to this level of analysis because I was responding to a post that uses 2010 PPP-adjusted numbers. I have no idea how to quickly compare that to today's benefits & costs.

But there are millions of families that fall on that border between "low-income" and "middle class" who are not eligible for subsidies, get crappy insurance, and have trouble paying for even that (which they lose if the employee gets sick).

Re: Rich countries tend to have a bigger middle-class, except the USA

#175

Post by dogma1138 »

standardUser wrote: post #148
dmix wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the average healthcare costs for an American? Aren't the majority of people in the US covered by Medicare or their employers plans? I'm from Canada so I'm curious what the yearly costs would be like. I typically lean libertarian on most areas of gov-run organizations but, much like prisons, public health insurance makes far more sense to be completely centralized vs the US random centralization and countless…

Having employer-provided health insurance in the United States does not mean it does not cost the employee as well. Many companies require the employee pay part of the premiums, especially for families, and there are many, many out-of-pocket costs that people must pay even when they have insurance. In the US, there were about 1.4 million bankruptcies every year before Obamacare. There are around 700,000 per year now.…

$800 is less than the 15-25% health tax you’ll pay in Europe.

Re: Rich countries tend to have a bigger middle-class, except the USA

#176

Post by crushcrashcrush »

victoriasun wrote: post #33
crushcrashcrush wrote: post #8

I have a real, honest to goodness question. I live in the Bay Area. I make $200,000 a year. I just had a mini-exit where I netted about $300K after taxes. I still rent for $2700/month. I don't want to buy an overpriced home in the bay in the suburbs (I wish we had for-sale condos like Toronto everywhere... still don't know why) I do well. I'm 32. I'm on an upwards path. But I don't feel upper class. I feel middle cla…

I would fathom a guess that you feel middle class for 2 reasons: 1. Your life doesn't fit in line with your expectations of upper class. 2. 200k a year in the Bay Area is, in its weird, sad way, middle class. 3. The feeling of "killing it" is pretty difficult to obtain when you are an ambitious person. But you are doing well. You are probably doing better off than most people, even in the Bay Area. I hope that you ca…

Can you expand on "set trajectories for yourself with success outcomes..." ?

Re: Rich countries tend to have a bigger middle-class, except the USA

#177

Post by crushcrashcrush »

the_gastropod wrote: post #26
crushcrashcrush wrote: post #8

I have a real, honest to goodness question. I live in the Bay Area. I make $200,000 a year. I just had a mini-exit where I netted about $300K after taxes. I still rent for $2700/month. I don't want to buy an overpriced home in the bay in the suburbs (I wish we had for-sale condos like Toronto everywhere... still don't know why) I do well. I'm 32. I'm on an upwards path. But I don't feel upper class. I feel middle cla…

Yes. With little effort, assuming prior to your exit you had a $0 net worth, you could be financially independent in ~5 years, able to spend more than an average American every year for the rest of your life. You're killing it.

How... would I do that?

Re: Rich countries tend to have a bigger middle-class, except the USA

#178

Post by majewsky »

dogma1138 wrote: post #175
standardUser wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having employer-provided health insurance in the United States does not mean it does not cost the employee as well. Many companies require the employee pay part of the premiums, especially for families, and there are many, many out-of-pocket costs that people must pay even when they have insurance. In the US, there were about 1.4 million bankruptcies every year before Obamacare. There are around 700,000 per year now.…

$800 is less than the 15-25% health tax you’ll pay in Europe.

You forgot to factor in that he's also paying indirectly for employer-provided health insurance. How much is that in comparison?

Re: Rich countries tend to have a bigger middle-class, except the USA

#179

Post by yardie »

matwood wrote: post #117
munk-a wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was once sort of the truth for the US, when everyone in the world owed America immense amounts of money after WWII and the US was paying _heavily_ into education. That's ended. The US is now becoming stupid politically and, even worse for the populace, uncompetitive - that "American Innovation" is dead and it ain't coming back for at least thirty or forty years unless education gets a serious booster shot. This…

On a per pupil basis, the US is near the top in spending. The problem is that money does not make it into teacher salaries or even into the classrooms. Like many other parts of the US government, the money gets wasted away in administration. This also is not a new thing. When I was in high school years ago, quite a few school buildings in the county were literally falling down trailers. With that going on, the school…

I see it as the schools in rich neighborhoods get more attention. If HVAC broke down the school district would hear it. Because the parents are more attentive and reactive. If the same thing happened to a school in a poorer neighborhood the parents wouldn’t react. Would t take time from work to attend those district meetings and the politicians will allocate the monies for their biggest complainers. Rinse and repeat for a decade and you end with those schools being in really bad shape due to delayed and neglected maintenance.

I live downtown and have been petitioning the school district for our own school. Downtown has grown from 10K to 80k residents in a decade. The school board has submitted and withdrawn plans for downtown. Costs are a big factor in withdrawing. But each year they delay that construction on a downtown school is only going to get more expensive.

Re: Rich countries tend to have a bigger middle-class, except the USA

#180

Post by akhilcacharya »

mfoy_ wrote: post #28
akhilcacharya wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I make a lot less than that and my rent is more than that now... I’m also 10 years younger.

How exactly does a 22-year-old have a $3k+ rent?

I live in a place close to my work in Boston.

So far I think it’s worth it just in terms of my sanity but it tickles me to see people making more than me complain about rent.

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