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Facebook taps lawyer who helped write Patriot Act as new general counsel

thehill.com

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Re: Facebook taps lawyer who helped write Patriot Act as new general counsel

#111

Post by username223 »

SilasX wrote: post #9

"How can we possibly form a legal case that justifies mass surveillance?" 'I think I know just the guy...' Edit: I was going to pre-emptively delete this as a joke/low-effort comment, but I think it's a tad useful in highlighting what Facebook "use case" this lawyer would be good for.

> John Yoo called her the "day-to-day manager of the Patriot Act in Congress."

I'm surprised they didn't hire John "Torture Memo" Yoo himself. Was Newstead really that much of a bargain? I know this is snarky, but these people lawyered some pretty serious evil into the world.

Re: Facebook taps lawyer who helped write Patriot Act as new general counsel

#113

Post by sprayk »

Any time I see arguments to effect of "lawyer X lawyered for Y, and Y is bad, so lawyer X is bad," I remember an episode from Star Trek: TNG called "The Measure of a Man," in which Picard is chosen to defend Data's right to self-determination as a sentient being, and Riker is chosen to make the opposite case for the character that wants to treat Data as a machine, a weapon that can be reallocated freely like a Jeep or a rifle. Riker struggles with this, but ends up giving the best case he can so the matter can be settled without any doubts. Doing a bad job on purpose leaves room for doubt and summary judgement, which is far from ideal.

I think the PATRIOT Act is complete bullshit, but I'm not going to hold a grudge against anyone that worked on it, only those who passed it and continue to vote to renew/strengthen it, who also refuse to listen to arguments against it.

Re: Facebook taps lawyer who helped write Patriot Act as new general counsel

#114

Post by mdorazio »

whytaka wrote: post #109
benatkin wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't relevant, though. The PATRIOT Act had pretty broad support. Just because she helped write it doesn't mean that she supports it more than other lawyers – just that she's a talented enough lawyer to be working on such major projects. It's the same as complaining about individual multi-millionaires who optimize their taxes.

> The PATRIOT Act had pretty broad support. By whom? Congress, constitutional lawyers, or the people?

Sadly, both Congress and the people at the time [1][2]. It was full-on panic mode in response to 9/11. I don't remember much about the constitutional lawyer side at the time. A couple years later the public started changing its mind [3], though Congress arguably still isn't even close.

[1] https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/107-2001/s313

[2] http://www.sheldensays.com/debating_the_usa_patriot_act.htm

[3] https://news.gallup.com/poll/9205/public-little-concerned-ab...

Re: Facebook taps lawyer who helped write Patriot Act as new general counsel

#115

Post by mdorazio »

godelski wrote: post #93
edmundsauto wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you not see any parallels between the two? FICO scores are borderline discriminatory because it turns out that social behaviors and group membership is correlated with those scores. FICO doesn't "care" if you're Muslim or black, but FICO scores can be absolutely used to discriminate against those groups.

This is a fair argument. But there were other factors in my argument. That social credit scores are used to determine more than "can you pay back your credit?" It isn't hard to argue that FICO can be abused. But what's being argued here is that we don't need, nor want, a system that is more imposing than FICO. One that affects much more of your life, such as "can I use an airplane?"

FICO can be and is used to discriminate in job applications. You also seem to be missing the point that debt financing is a huge part of the ability to live a standard American life, much more so than in a country like China. For example, if you can't buy a car, there are many places in America where you simply won't be able to get around. This social-financial reliance system makes credit scores in America a lot closer to a social credit system than you seem to think.

If a score prevents you from using transportation (a needed car), living in decent housing, and getting a decent job, I'd say that score is pretty tightly tied to your social well-being.

Re: Facebook taps lawyer who helped write Patriot Act as new general counsel

#116

Post by faxi »

m0zg wrote: post #21
malloreon wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

for facebook optics is not a thing. they know they have a stranglehold on people addicted to their products, and advertisers who pay through the nose to sell things to those addicts. Honestly, why bother with optics? No one's going to like the company ever again except their employees, but no business or politician or organization is going to not take facebook's call.

^ this HN reader has it right. And we'll see the extent of that truth tomorrow when FB announces their earnings. Most of the problems in the world can be solved with robust revenue growth. It's only when you're on the decline that "optics" begin to matter, and FB is most certainly not in decline, at least outside the HN bubble.

It depends on how the ongoing Cambridge Analytica scandal goes.

Gawker closed up despite it's billion-dollar Unicorn status because of a $140M verdict. A multi-billion dollar suit like the Cambridge Analytica could be devastating.

Re: Facebook taps lawyer who helped write Patriot Act as new general counsel

#118

Post by Aeolun »

sprayk wrote: post #113

Any time I see arguments to effect of "lawyer X lawyered for Y, and Y is bad, so lawyer X is bad," I remember an episode from Star Trek: TNG called "The Measure of a Man," in which Picard is chosen to defend Data's right to self-determination as a sentient being, and Riker is chosen to make the opposite case for the character that wants to treat Data as a machine, a weapon that can be reallocated freely like a Jeep o…

Aside from that, I think that a lot of developers are in a terrible position to blame that lawyer.

How often have you added morally dubious scripts or features to your company products/websites?

Re: Facebook taps lawyer who helped write Patriot Act as new general counsel

#119

Post by bitL »

Tech people should get it out of their heads that the stewards of industry follow the same virtuous passions that got these techies into tech in the first place.

I became so disgusted by "leadership qualities" showcased in the past 3-4 years that I am now setting up multiple federated servers with all kinds of FANG-functionality replacements so that the new generation of techies is still allowed to dream about better world freely, instead of taking xyz-pill everyday, turning them into cynics.

Re: Facebook taps lawyer who helped write Patriot Act as new general counsel

#120

Post by m0zg »

faxi wrote: post #116
m0zg wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

^ this HN reader has it right. And we'll see the extent of that truth tomorrow when FB announces their earnings. Most of the problems in the world can be solved with robust revenue growth. It's only when you're on the decline that "optics" begin to matter, and FB is most certainly not in decline, at least outside the HN bubble.

It depends on how the ongoing Cambridge Analytica scandal goes. Gawker closed up despite it's billion-dollar Unicorn status because of a $140M verdict. A multi-billion dollar suit like the Cambridge Analytica could be devastating.

You're missing one simple fact: people in the House, Senate, and Oval Office (irrespective of administration) need FB to get elected nowadays. They also need docile/agreeable Zuck. FB isn't going anywhere.
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