What about Uber and Lyft? Aren't they known to operate at a loss to undercut the competition, and couldn't taxi drivers bring them to court for that?
according to the article, if the company is operate at loss and it benefit customers, it is fine! "Both of these outcomes reflect consumers failing to share in Amazon’s bounty, which is key for current antitrust law. Right now, anti-competitive conduct like predatory pricing is judged under the “consumer welfare standard,” which has been interpreted to mean simply whether a market dominated by a single company result…
Is Amazon Violating U.S. Antitrust Laws?
11–20 of 159 posts
Re: Is Amazon Violating U.S. Antitrust Laws?
#12Earlier quoted context omitted.
according to the article, if the company is operate at loss and it benefit customers, it is fine! "Both of these outcomes reflect consumers failing to share in Amazon’s bounty, which is key for current antitrust law. Right now, anti-competitive conduct like predatory pricing is judged under the “consumer welfare standard,” which has been interpreted to mean simply whether a market dominated by a single company result…
I'd argue consumers are benefiting greatly from Amazon's profits. They have overall re-invested those profits into other businesses that benefit consumers. Ex: Purchased Whole Foods and have brought down those prices overall plus building Amazon Go stores which offer a much better consumer experience than traditional grocery. Amazon's Web Services platform has leveled the playing field and enabled many startups. Amaz…
Re: Is Amazon Violating U.S. Antitrust Laws?
#13Earlier quoted context omitted.
according to the article, if the company is operate at loss and it benefit customers, it is fine! "Both of these outcomes reflect consumers failing to share in Amazon’s bounty, which is key for current antitrust law. Right now, anti-competitive conduct like predatory pricing is judged under the “consumer welfare standard,” which has been interpreted to mean simply whether a market dominated by a single company result…
I'd argue consumers are benefiting greatly from Amazon's profits. They have overall re-invested those profits into other businesses that benefit consumers. Ex: Purchased Whole Foods and have brought down those prices overall plus building Amazon Go stores which offer a much better consumer experience than traditional grocery. Amazon's Web Services platform has leveled the playing field and enabled many startups. Amaz…
Re: Is Amazon Violating U.S. Antitrust Laws?
#14Re: Is Amazon Violating U.S. Antitrust Laws?
#15What about Uber and Lyft? Aren't they known to operate at a loss to undercut the competition, and couldn't taxi drivers bring them to court for that?
That seems like you could easily circumvent by claiming the underpriced service is a loss leader, routing customers towards more profitable upsells at other points in the relationship. Printers and toner, handles and razors, banks and toasters.
[1] Except banks and toasters which is... a weird example case
Re: Is Amazon Violating U.S. Antitrust Laws?
#16Yes, via vertical integration[1] - this should be obvious to anyone outside of the FTC[2]. [1] For people unaware of Amazon's practice of pushing out middlemen who conduct high volumes of business: http://fortune.com/2016/04/20/amazon-copies-merchants/ [2] People inside of the FTC are almost certainly aware, but happily continue to shove their fingers in their ears and sing "la la la I can't hear you la la la".
What might be illegal would be selling products at a loss to drive others away.
Re: Is Amazon Violating U.S. Antitrust Laws?
#17Yes, via vertical integration[1] - this should be obvious to anyone outside of the FTC[2]. [1] For people unaware of Amazon's practice of pushing out middlemen who conduct high volumes of business: http://fortune.com/2016/04/20/amazon-copies-merchants/ [2] People inside of the FTC are almost certainly aware, but happily continue to shove their fingers in their ears and sing "la la la I can't hear you la la la".
Vertical integration, or cutting out the ‘middle-man’ is not in and of itself illegal. What might be illegal would be selling products at a loss to drive others away.
Pretty certain amazon checked at least one of those boxes - reasonably confident they checked at least three of them.
Re: Is Amazon Violating U.S. Antitrust Laws?
#18Yet another sensationalist headline that is unsubstantiated by the article.
"This law student" has a theory. He does not have evidence -- and, in fact, much ink in the article is spilled on the fact that the evidence needed to sustain an antitrust case against Amazon isn't readily available to the public or to the Government.
Nor has any Court ever held, to my knowledge, that an antitrust action can be sustained without consumer prices going up - merely keeping them the same is not enough.
Key quotes (emphasis mine):
"Sussman believes that if Amazon gave the full picture, it would show negative cash flow."
"No current accounting rules force full disclosure of itemized costs. Considered highly confidential, they’re typically redacted from public legal documents, even when a company is sued. More definitive cash flow numbers could help prove whether Amazon sells items below cost."
"Sussman believes that the Federal Trade Commission should force companies to break down their costs in confidential examinations."
"Right now, anti-competitive conduct like predatory pricing is judged under the “consumer welfare standard,” which has been interpreted to mean simply whether a market dominated by a single company results in higher or lower prices. But even though prices are the same on Amazon, consumers are arguably missing out, Sussman explains, because they’re not benefiting from Amazon’s soaring profits." (This is not my understanding of an actionable situation under current antitrust law.)
Re: Is Amazon Violating U.S. Antitrust Laws?
#19Yes, via vertical integration[1] - this should be obvious to anyone outside of the FTC[2]. [1] For people unaware of Amazon's practice of pushing out middlemen who conduct high volumes of business: http://fortune.com/2016/04/20/amazon-copies-merchants/ [2] People inside of the FTC are almost certainly aware, but happily continue to shove their fingers in their ears and sing "la la la I can't hear you la la la".
Vertical integration, or cutting out the ‘middle-man’ is not in and of itself illegal. What might be illegal would be selling products at a loss to drive others away.
Re: Is Amazon Violating U.S. Antitrust Laws?
#20The purpose of the team is to calculate the proper price to sell items for, the "discount" to vendors, and the items to put in the "buy box" in order to make the most profit for Amazon. I think the what is described here in the article is only the tip of the iceberg. Amazon isn't doing something as simplistic as cutting out the competition with low prices... they are feeding all the numbers into neural networks and analyzing and predicting competition and profits, and then doing what the systems tell them is the most profitable.
That is, anything that Amazon can predict will make them more money or gain more market share... they are doing. I have full confidence that they are doing all of the terrible things outlined and more. The bigger question is whether government and law allow them to continue doing this. I think that it will continue to be allowed, despite being super shady and destroying both small and medium size businesses.
It cannot easily be proven that there is anyone orchestrating the monopolistic processes, because Amazon has essentially turned the process of dominating the market into an equation and they just do what the equation tells them to.
Amazon will claim "we are just being smarter; we mean no harm", and without providing open minutes of their internal discussions it will be impossible to prove wrongdoing.
What is needed is open accountability for internal plans, but that is against the "American way" so I doubt it will happen anytime soon.