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Why don't we have Wayland on Raspberry Pi yet? (2018)

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Re: Why don't we have Wayland on Raspberry Pi yet? (2018)

#141

Post by ksaj »

NullPrefix wrote: post #118
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue that this is true of most of Microsoft Office as well. When did they really add a new feature to PowerPoint that you had to have? And it's no surprise both Adobe and Microsoft have pushed people towards a subscription model for this software: Nobody in their right mind would pay for upgrades otherwise. Arguably Office you need every ten years to ensure you have security updates because of the amount of…

Don't know when it was added, but I recently found out that you can have multiple synchronized Word windows of the same document.

At least 15 years ago you could drag a marker that hides above the vertical scroll to create multiple views of the same document. I didn't know it carried into other windows, so that might be newer.

Re: Why don't we have Wayland on Raspberry Pi yet? (2018)

#142

Post by azernik »

0xfaded wrote: post #67
mwfunk wrote: post #9

I enjoyed the article but this quote jumped out at me: "What took thirty years to build isn't going to be replaced in a day." This was in regard to replacing X11 with Wayland. It's funny because it would be closer to the truth to say that X11 took 5 years to build, and for the last 25 years everyone has been trying to get off of it, but in the meantime piling more stuff on top of it since that's easier than starting…

I've been reading through the Vulkan spec, which is in way similar in that OpenGL has been extended since its introduction in 1992 with more and more features to support new graphics capabilities as they evolved. I've seen Vulkan called the successor to OpenGL, but reading the spec it seems more like the end game for raster graphics card programming. OpenGL 4.0 was released in 2010, and since then changes have been i…

My preferred metaphor is to the RISC revolution. Just like RISC decoupled CPU design from programming language design (in the sense that hardware was often designed to make assembly coding easy), Vulkan has decoupled shader language design from driver writing. OpenGL was designed under the assumption that the general game-dev public would be writing shaders for direct consumption by the driver/hardware combo; Vulkan, on the other hand, seems to be designed to be a) written by a narrow group of game engine developers, and b) generated by compilers from higher-level shader languages.

(NB: I Am Not An Expert and these are my Uneducated Impressions.)

Re: Why don't we have Wayland on Raspberry Pi yet? (2018)

#143

Post by ghthor »

DonHopkins wrote: post #122
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue that this is true of most of Microsoft Office as well. When did they really add a new feature to PowerPoint that you had to have? And it's no surprise both Adobe and Microsoft have pushed people towards a subscription model for this software: Nobody in their right mind would pay for upgrades otherwise. Arguably Office you need every ten years to ensure you have security updates because of the amount of…

The feature set of Microsoft Office, yes. But I think Google Docs took some reasonable steps backwards in features in exchange for a big leap forward in collaboration. (Or a few steps towards but not nearly far enough to where Douglas Engelbart was in 1968.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mother_of_All_Demos >The live demonstration featured the introduction of a complete computer hardware and software system calle…

This human hacks!

Re: Why don't we have Wayland on Raspberry Pi yet? (2018)

#144

Post by lone_haxx0r »

emersion wrote: post #114
hyperion2010 wrote: post #44

Wayland was designed to solve a very specific set of use cases and nothing more. The number of times I have read "wayland doesn't do that" or "that's not wayland's job" or "wayland is just the compositor" are telling. Of course a stack that is compositor + windowing toolkits is going to miss countless mission critical use cases in countless workflows, not to mention that it is an even further regression from composab…

What are your use-cases not addressed by Wayland? The sway compositor has been standardizing protocols for screenshots, screen recording/streaming, composable desktop components and so on.

Just wait until everyone else creates their own standard protocols.

Re: Why don't we have Wayland on Raspberry Pi yet? (2018)

#145

Post by jcantero »

michaelmrose wrote: post #36
hs86 wrote: post #15

After reading http://techtrickery.com/keyloggers.html I am not sure if I ever want to have Xorg installed anymore. Wayland is great but it seems like having a fully featured *nix desktop without XWayland installed is still hard to achieve.

Wayland is insufficient in and of itself to prevent keylogging. https://github.com/Aishou/wayland-keylogger At present Linux desktops aren't very secure against user installed malicious software. It is however fortunate that most software is installed from curated repos. It's not clear that just switching to wayland is worth much at this point in time.

That link is a blatant lie. Redirect each wayland client's stderr to a different term and you will see that the process (keyboard/mice input + graphics output) isolation is still working as intended.

Re: Why don't we have Wayland on Raspberry Pi yet? (2018)

#146

Post by grumpydba »

codedokode wrote: post #106
stormbrew wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shell scripting languages generally make certain common tasks easy that most other scripting languages do not. Namely, process management and especially piping information through those processes. If that's most of what a program is doing I would 10000 times rather read a script written in bash doing it than a python script that pulls in 800 dependencies just to get halfway to making these sorts of tasks take less th…

Shell script also has dependencies: specific version of shell and CLI utilities. Shell script is a good thing when you need to write something quickly with hacks but it is not a good foundation for init system or build system. They easily break if you redefine variables like IFS, add command aliases or use names with spaces or special characters.

> Shell script also has dependencies: specific version of shell and CLI utilities.

Just use posix stuff. And move on.

Re: Why don't we have Wayland on Raspberry Pi yet? (2018)

#147

Post by c256 »

temac wrote: post #41
munchbunny wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After this many years, I think the ambition to support remoting at the per-window level just isn't important. In practice I've actually found it outright confusing when I have two windows operating inside two separate environments, but they're both in the same visual container. VNC/RDP work well enough, and SSH works well enough for when you don't need a GUI.

ssh -X works well (enough) when you need a GUI.

That only works if you’re running X11, not on Wayland (in case it was unclear; I was momentarily confused, so I’m posting.)

Re: Why don't we have Wayland on Raspberry Pi yet? (2018)

#148

Post by DonHopkins »

NullPrefix wrote: post #118
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue that this is true of most of Microsoft Office as well. When did they really add a new feature to PowerPoint that you had to have? And it's no surprise both Adobe and Microsoft have pushed people towards a subscription model for this software: Nobody in their right mind would pay for upgrades otherwise. Arguably Office you need every ten years to ensure you have security updates because of the amount of…

Don't know when it was added, but I recently found out that you can have multiple synchronized Word windows of the same document.

On different people's screens?

Re: Why don't we have Wayland on Raspberry Pi yet? (2018)

#149

Post by mustacheemperor »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #110
DonHopkins wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Photoshop pretty much got it right a couple decades or so ago, and they've just been porting it, smearing on new lipstick, and figuring out how to make more money with it ever since.

I would argue that this is true of most of Microsoft Office as well. When did they really add a new feature to PowerPoint that you had to have? And it's no surprise both Adobe and Microsoft have pushed people towards a subscription model for this software: Nobody in their right mind would pay for upgrades otherwise. Arguably Office you need every ten years to ensure you have security updates because of the amount of…

>When did they really add a new feature to PowerPoint that you had to have

Funny enough, the screen recording functionality added to PowerPoint a few updates ago is as far as I can tell the best simple screen recorder available for Windows 10 and the closest thing to native screen recording outside the game bar. Not sure why that hasn't made it into the snipping tool yet.

Re: Why don't we have Wayland on Raspberry Pi yet? (2018)

#150

Post by hollerith »

cbdumas wrote: post #120
hollerith wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is time for me to give desktop Linux another try (which will be my first serious try in 10 years).

Yes definitely! Things have come a long way in 10 years, in my opinion. If you are looking for something more "set up and forget about it" though I would definitely recommend Ubuntu over Arch. I use Arch because I (usually) enjoy tinkering and customizing and setting things up exactly how I want. Edit for a little more detail: I used Ubuntu for a long time on my desktop and actually did quite a bit of gaming on it. M…

I ran Arch for a few years before leaving Linux 10 years ago.
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