Also interesting is looking at GDP per capita vs equality (GINI coefficient)
I've posted the graph here: https://kyso.io/eoin/gdp-per-capita-vs-gini
And a discussion link here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19732909
Rich countries tend to have a bigger middle-class, except the USA
101–110 of 205 posts
Re: Rich countries tend to have a bigger middle-class, except the USA
#102Earlier quoted context omitted.
Conversely, it's also what has attracted so many immigrants to America and created so much historic social mobility[0]. Note - I believe this has largely been reversed (and thus stagnated) due to a generation of "I got mine" attitudes, aka the Baby Boomers. [0]Example - in the UK there is very much a "these are the cards I've been dealt" attitude towards social mobility.
>Conversely, it's also what has attracted so many immigrants to America and created so much historic social mobility[0]. Note - I believe this has largely been reversed (and thus stagnated) due to a generation of "I got mine" attitudes, aka the Baby Boomers. It's not "I got mine" attitude nearly as much as it is plain racism. As a block, White Americans preferred to shred social services rather than extending the umb…
how does the quote go again? "every working class person in the US thinks they are a temporary inconvinced millionare?".
One of the major differences i have found between people of working class in the US and those of other nations is their relation to their social class.
a lot of people in the US seem to be trying to get out of a "working class" strata, instead of getting a bigger piece of the pie for said strata.
Re: Rich countries tend to have a bigger middle-class, except the USA
#103Earlier quoted context omitted.
They aren't completely wrong. 76% of Americans spend a year of their life in the top 20%, 56% in the top 10%. https://www.aei.org/publication/evidence-shows-significant-i...
The top 10% for individuals is 114k[0] and for a household is 178k[1]. They may eventually get to millionaire status, but there's still a long way to go. Basically, getting to 100+k at the end of a long career and plenty of saving & investing (which Americans are not great at [2]) may get you there, but I don't think those stats you provided really bear out the case. [0] https://dqydj.com/income-percentile-calculator…
Millionaire status has been retconned to mean $1M/yr in income, to keep it out of the realm of something you can just work for and achieve with a middle class lifetime.
Re: Rich countries tend to have a bigger middle-class, except the USA
#104The middle income group in the US has shrunk to around 48% of population. The lower income group has grown a bit and this is the real problem. This group is defined as below 75% of median. The upper income group has also grown significantly. This is defined as above 200% of median. While we complain (rightly) about the share going to the upper few percent, the percentage of population that is upper income in the US m…
That is the case https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/09/06/the-america...
Wow. According to that first chart, the middle class has shrunk 10% since 1971, with the upper class getting 5% larger and the lower class getting 5% larger.
Re: Rich countries tend to have a bigger middle-class, except the USA
#105Interestingly it seems from this articles figures that the actual disposable income of the middle class and lower class of the US is much higher than in Europe [1]. "The United States’ smaller middle income group still earns more than almost all its Western European counterparts. The average disposable income among middle income Americans in 2010 was $60,884, placing it comfortably ahead of Norway, which averaged $56…
Need to subtract the cash you need to set aside in case if medical emergencies and higher education.
It really depends on what kind of job you have. If you’ve worked hard and have a good job (like most people on HN), your health insurance likely means that you don’t have to pay a lot out of pocket. In my case for example, I have a family of four covered with a very, very good plan for $300 a month and $5k max out of pocket. Household income is north of $200k in a low cost of living area. So my max theoretical out of pocket costs of $8600 per year means in the worst possible scenario less than 5% of my paycheck goes to healthcare. Ain’t no way in hell a socialized healthcare system in this country will take as much or less out of my ass every year. And that’s not even getting into concerns that the quality of care won’t be as good (we have the VA as an example of what we can look forward to).
That’s why there’s a lot of resistance to socialized healthcare in this country. The rich will be fine, the poor will benefit massively, and the middle class will take it in the rear, as usual.
Re: Rich countries tend to have a bigger middle-class, except the USA
#106In all my travels no one is more deluded about the middle class than in the US. Healthcare is cheaper in Europe therefore it must be worse, somehow. The government is completely dysfunctional and we are worse off for it. Rather than pay slightly more to fully fund a working city/state/federal government everyone would rather pay slightly less and have a government that can't work at all. Then, complain about the fact…
Once we tried to had a conversation about gun control, health care, and social security with an American ex-colleague.
He went from being this nice composed man, to be a GunNutz-take the government out of my health care jihadist in just seconds. It was bizarre, no one really argued with him anymore since he was so visibly upset. That is some serious indoctrination that's going down there, that is for sure.
Re: Rich countries tend to have a bigger middle-class, except the USA
#107Earlier quoted context omitted.
Conversely, it's also what has attracted so many immigrants to America and created so much historic social mobility[0]. Note - I believe this has largely been reversed (and thus stagnated) due to a generation of "I got mine" attitudes, aka the Baby Boomers. [0]Example - in the UK there is very much a "these are the cards I've been dealt" attitude towards social mobility.
>Conversely, it's also what has attracted so many immigrants to America and created so much historic social mobility[0]. Note - I believe this has largely been reversed (and thus stagnated) due to a generation of "I got mine" attitudes, aka the Baby Boomers. It's not "I got mine" attitude nearly as much as it is plain racism. As a block, White Americans preferred to shred social services rather than extending the umb…
In the US there's a strong belief in self reliance. Just because something is harder doesn't mean it's worse (so the thinking goes). You can't honestly say everyone that supported Regan is racist. People just don't believe in hand outs, to anyone (I know I don't). There's nothing racist about that.
You're also ignoring many other social issues that Republican's have traditionally supported that have nothing to do with race. There are probably very few people taking race into consideration at all when they vote.
Re: Rich countries tend to have a bigger middle-class, except the USA
#108I have a real, honest to goodness question. I live in the Bay Area. I make $200,000 a year. I just had a mini-exit where I netted about $300K after taxes. I still rent for $2700/month. I don't want to buy an overpriced home in the bay in the suburbs (I wish we had for-sale condos like Toronto everywhere... still don't know why) I do well. I'm 32. I'm on an upwards path. But I don't feel upper class. I feel middle cla…
It sounds like you need some perspective. You have more wealth than nearly everyone else on Earth. What more do you want?
> You have more wealth than nearly everyone else on Earth.
But huge swaths of the earth are in poverty and have entirely different costs of living.
A more relevant measure... they have more wealth than the vast majority of San Francisco itself - 80th percentile household income in SF is $190k according to https://statisticalatlas.com/place/California/San-Francisco/...
Re: Rich countries tend to have a bigger middle-class, except the USA
#109In all my travels no one is more deluded about the middle class than in the US. Healthcare is cheaper in Europe therefore it must be worse, somehow. The government is completely dysfunctional and we are worse off for it. Rather than pay slightly more to fully fund a working city/state/federal government everyone would rather pay slightly less and have a government that can't work at all. Then, complain about the fact…
When I lived in NY I felt the same way about the DMV. Here in Canyon County Idaho there are a good 10-15 agents and I've never waited more than a few minutes. Guess we take all the savings from our poor education system and put them into the DMV!
Off topic but what kind of jobs are there in Canyon County?
Re: Rich countries tend to have a bigger middle-class, except the USA
#110Earlier quoted context omitted.
Don't even get me started. I did a year and a half of university in Tokyo and I used and paid for the health care system there a few times. Cavities filled for 20 dollars at high end central Tokyo offices. Skin doctors for zero dollars and prescribed creams for 800 yen. I knew a brain surgeon there who told me that the max price you could pay for his services was equivalent to 700 dollars. He didn't even bother going…
> He didn't even bother going to conferences in America Might there be content in these professional conferences that would be relevant and beneficial for patient care? Is not going to professional development conferences a badge of honor or a mark of quality that I fail to grasp?
IMO you could find the same information at European, Canadian or Australian conferences, etc. I speculate it has to do with the idea that the focus in the US isn't on patient care and outcomes but rather on profits.