Why don't we have Wayland on Raspberry Pi yet? (2018)
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Why don't we have Wayland on Raspberry Pi yet? (2018)
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Re: Why don't we have Wayland on Raspberry Pi yet? (2018)
#2Meh. As far as I'm concerned, Wayland is strictly inferior to X, so long as it fails to support network transparency / remoting. Talk to me when they have a real solution for this, besides VNC or supporting RDP.
Re: Why don't we have Wayland on Raspberry Pi yet? (2018)
#3Meh. As far as I'm concerned, Wayland is strictly inferior to X, so long as it fails to support network transparency / remoting. Talk to me when they have a real solution for this, besides VNC or supporting RDP.
Xorg remoting was poorly designed to accomodate DRI/DRM, video card acceleration and had adequate performance to only display primitives on screen. Thats the reasons of poor Xorg remoting adoption. I dont remember seeing anyone in this decade using it - it hands down lost to vnc/nx and rdp.
Re: Why don't we have Wayland on Raspberry Pi yet? (2018)
#4Meh. As far as I'm concerned, Wayland is strictly inferior to X, so long as it fails to support network transparency / remoting. Talk to me when they have a real solution for this, besides VNC or supporting RDP.
Xorg remoting was poorly designed to accomodate DRI/DRM, video card acceleration and had adequate performance to only display primitives on screen. Thats the reasons of poor Xorg remoting adoption. I dont remember seeing anyone in this decade using it - it hands down lost to vnc/nx and rdp.
Yeah, VNC is just way better. Even running a local Docker container and using X11 forwarding is extremely slow.
Re: Why don't we have Wayland on Raspberry Pi yet? (2018)
#5Earlier quoted context omitted.
Xorg remoting was poorly designed to accomodate DRI/DRM, video card acceleration and had adequate performance to only display primitives on screen. Thats the reasons of poor Xorg remoting adoption. I dont remember seeing anyone in this decade using it - it hands down lost to vnc/nx and rdp.
Yeah, VNC is just way better. Even running a local Docker container and using X11 forwarding is extremely slow.
It depends on how you define better. VNC may be faster, but it's just because X carries a lot of historical cruft, I believe. Usability-wise, X is more flexible. I can move individual windows between computers in X. I can't do that with VNC.
I wouldn't mind doing the jump to Wayland if it were as flexible as X, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Re: Why don't we have Wayland on Raspberry Pi yet? (2018)
#6Because it's just not ready yet. It doesn't cover all the needs it must cover in order to be considered superior to X.
At least that's the only reasonable explanation I can find.
Re: Why don't we have Wayland on Raspberry Pi yet? (2018)
#7Meh. As far as I'm concerned, Wayland is strictly inferior to X, so long as it fails to support network transparency / remoting. Talk to me when they have a real solution for this, besides VNC or supporting RDP.
After this many years, I think the ambition to support remoting at the per-window level just isn't important. In practice I've actually found it outright confusing when I have two windows operating inside two separate environments, but they're both in the same visual container.
VNC/RDP work well enough, and SSH works well enough for when you don't need a GUI.
Re: Why don't we have Wayland on Raspberry Pi yet? (2018)
#8Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, VNC is just way better. Even running a local Docker container and using X11 forwarding is extremely slow.
It depends on how you define better. VNC may be faster, but it's just because X carries a lot of historical cruft, I believe. Usability-wise, X is more flexible. I can move individual windows between computers in X. I can't do that with VNC. I wouldn't mind doing the jump to Wayland if it were as flexible as X, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Correct me if I'm wrong.
what's the point of running program locally, to be rendered locally, sending the primitives to Xorg server to be displayed somewhere else? is it using Xorg as a network proxy?
Re: Why don't we have Wayland on Raspberry Pi yet? (2018)
#9I enjoyed the article but this quote jumped out at me: "What took thirty years to build isn't going to be replaced in a day." This was in regard to replacing X11 with Wayland. It's funny because it would be closer to the truth to say that X11 took 5 years to build, and for the last 25 years everyone has been trying to get off of it, but in the meantime piling more stuff on top of it since that's easier than starting from scratch. 25 years ago there were people saying stuff like, "I wish we had something else, but this is what we're stuck with, and it's just too much work to make a new window system, so let's just add another protocol extension."
So we're already 25 years into trying to replace X11, which is already far longer than the period of time in which it was being designed and actively developed on a foundational level. There's got to be some good lessons learned in all of this about software lifecycles or getting it right the first time or knowing when to move on or OS development by way of mailing list consensus. I totally get why it's still used after all these years, it performs an essential task- but I bet the original creators would be the ones most shocked that it's still a thing in 2019.
Re: Why don't we have Wayland on Raspberry Pi yet? (2018)
#10I think it is important to point out that Wayland is a specification[0] and not some blob of software.