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EU votes to create gigantic biometrics database

zdnet.com

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Re: EU votes to create gigantic biometrics database

#171

Post by Mirioron »

mschuster91 wrote: post #67
Mirioron wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> Why are you using such inflammatory language? Why not? The FPÖ (AT) is right-wing extremist. The Fidesz (HU) got suspended from the EVP for leaving the path of democracy. Salvini (IT) regularly uses right-wing talking points and incites hatred. PiS (PL) is under fire from the EU Commission which has sued the Polish government due to them dismantling the court system. > Furthermore, Germany is and has been more auth…

>Why not? The FPÖ (AT) is right-wing extremist.

First of all, extremism means that their politics falls outside of what society finds normal. Since you're talking about the ruling parties of multiple countries, that were democratically elected, then by definition they cannot be extremists.

>The Fidesz (HU) got suspended from the EVP for leaving the path of democracy.

They were suspended because of anti-immigration billboards that featured Juncker (a member of EPP himself):

>The decision was made partly in reaction to the outrage caused by the Hungarian government's recent anti-migration billboard campaign featuring Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker, a senior member of the EPP.

Source: Politico

https://www.politico.eu/article/fidesz-meps-remain-in-the-ep...

>Salvini (IT) regularly uses right-wing talking points

And how is this bad? I call bs on the "regularly incites hatred" part.

>PiS (PL) is under fire from the EU Commission which has sued the Polish government due to them dismantling the court system.

The EU Commission is suing Poland because they introduced a law which lowers the retirement age of supreme court judges from 70 to 65.

>I agree that this regulation is utter crap, but that is not authoritarian.

Setting up rules that tell you how you must live your life is authoritarian. The government banning homeschooling and you needing permission from the government to take your kid out of school for the day are instances of authoritarianism. There are many of these small things that add up. I wouldn't consider any of these countries to be authoritarian, but some are more than others. Germany seems to love to regulate everything.

Re: EU votes to create gigantic biometrics database

#172

Post by NotPaidToPost »

franch wrote: post #166
NotPaidToPost wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This misses the point. You could also say that monetary union between the US states makes no sense economically. The point is that the people decided to have a political union and to belong to the same country, the USA. Monetary union follows. The aim is to have a federal union in Europe. In a way, going straight to monetary union is to 'force' further political union because they know full well that it requires it i…

> The aim is to have a federal union in Europe. In a way, going straight to monetary union is to 'force' further political union because they know full well that it requires it in order to work. Sorry, but I disagree. There is no consensus whatsoever in the EU about a federal Union. There is not even consensus on a budgetary union (as in shared debt, not just having a shared currency) because it will reflect badly on…

Ever closer political union has been the aim, publicly stated or not, since the early days of the treaty of Rome.

They know and knew that monetary union can only lead to further political union.

The main issue, or the benefit, is that it requires all countries to have a good governance. It will force Greece and friends to finally be serious.

Re: EU votes to create gigantic biometrics database

#173

Post by NotPaidToPost »

christudor wrote: post #167
NotPaidToPost wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This misses the point. You could also say that monetary union between the US states makes no sense economically. The point is that the people decided to have a political union and to belong to the same country, the USA. Monetary union follows. The aim is to have a federal union in Europe. In a way, going straight to monetary union is to 'force' further political union because they know full well that it requires it i…

The big mistake the EU made was assuming: (i) that monetary union would foster political union, and (ii) the people of Europe actually wanted political union in the first place. I don't think either are true. I think we more or less agree with each other, by the way. It's important that the political situation matches the economic situation. I just don't think you can use the economics to force the politics, if you s…

Monetary union will lead to deeper political union. There is no choice. It already has.

Re: EU votes to create gigantic biometrics database

#174

Post by oaiey »

sho wrote: post #158

Basically every first world country has this now, or is well on the way to having it. Just today, for a JetBlue flight in the US: https://twitter.com/TallGlassofStyL/status/11199746416054599... The question is not whether Governments should have this information - that horse has left the barn. The question now is what they should be allowed to do with it.

That is exactly what the gdpr also wants to make sure: make it clear what happens to your data. I just hope they stick to the same rules :)

Re: EU votes to create gigantic biometrics database

#175

Post by tapland »

ahje wrote: post #40
vesinisa wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You were without a question dealing with an incompetent border officer in that case. Finnish ID card issued to a Finnish national is a valid travel document to all EU countries, to all Nordic countries, and to Switzerland. Additionally, for the citizens of all Nordic countries, no official travel documents are required to other Nordic countries in the first place. There is only a requirement to "be able to prove your…

From what I could tell, it was an employee of the company that runs the trains and not an actual official. But yes, I kinda expected a regular ID would be enough, just as it has been in the past.

People mistake 'regular ID' and national ID.

Does your regular ID state your citizenship? Good, then you can travel. If it doesn't, you aren't proving that you are a citizen with the right to travel freely in schengen.

Re: EU votes to create gigantic biometrics database

#176

Post by nicky0 »

r3bl wrote: post #70
mothsonasloth wrote: post #59

Cookie law, Article 13, now this. Who are driving these motions?

Where's the malice in the cookie law? It's an absurd law that's a prime example of how incompetence at a regulative level leads to a negative outcome in a specific sector. I 100% agree with that, but I fail to see how it can be compared to your other two examples. Cookie law doesn't affect your privacy in any way (and certainly not for the worse), it just gives you annoyances you have to deal with.

There is no malice in any of them.

Re: EU votes to create gigantic biometrics database

#177

Post by Someone1234 »

xfitm3 wrote: post #153
Someone1234 wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're a US Citizen you also need to submit in order to get re-admitted into your country of birth, or just to gain a US Passport (after 2007). So I'm not defending the EU, but the US is already doing exactly this.

I have never had to provide biometrics at the US border.

You haven't flown internationally since 2007?

Re: EU votes to create gigantic biometrics database

#178

Post by jbigelow76 »

xfitm3 wrote: post #153
Someone1234 wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're a US Citizen you also need to submit in order to get re-admitted into your country of birth, or just to gain a US Passport (after 2007). So I'm not defending the EU, but the US is already doing exactly this.

I have never had to provide biometrics at the US border.

Not the same as providing biometrics at the US border but in the same neighborhood of discussion regarding trends:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/flights/todayinthesky/...

Don't show your boaording pass -> gate opens anyway -> WTF?! -> tweets ensue: https://twitter.com/mackenzief/status/1118509708673998848

Re: EU votes to create gigantic biometrics database

#179

Post by oaiey »

modzu wrote: post #170

borders are legitimized racism it's fine if my country has certain policies that are different than your country. BUT LET INDIVIDUALS DECIDE WHICH SIDE THEY WANT TO BE ON. NOBODY CHOSE WHERE TO BE BORN

I would formalize it differently. Borders are established by a society of people who live in it. Historically, often based on racial, linguisitic or cultural differences.

There is no right to any outsider to declare himself member of a society (just think of your book reading club). It is the right of the society to define the rationale for its membership.

Is it unfair to many people to live in worse conditions: yes. Does it change anything of the above: no. Does it change the right of the society to deny entry: no. And for the hard individual cases, there is the Human rights declaration which for example the EU has put into law.

Re: EU votes to create gigantic biometrics database

#180

Post by AcerbicZero »

retiredcoder wrote: post #107
wuschel wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the link. Quote: "The type of data about people kept in SIS includes (...)" So it is not a complete list, and the listed entries are just an excerpt: - requests for extradition - undesirability of presence in particular territory - minor age - mental illnesses (!!!) - missing person status - a need for protection - requests by a judicial authority - and suspected of crime. The SIS also keeps data referring…

Regarding about mental illness entry. I have ADHD and it is flagged in the system. How do I know? When I tried to exchange my driver license, it was flagged and the “local DMV” forwarded the application to the police department. I then had to present evidence to the police I was capable of driving, thankfully I’ve never been fined and my psychiatrist didn’t have a problem signing a document stating I am capable of dr…

This is one of those issues that always stands out to me when people discuss "mental illness" and the government. Usually its in the context of firearms, but clearly thats not always the case. It makes it difficult to trust any system of flagging "mental illness" won't be full of false positives, and limit the liberty of perfectly healthy people. Regardless, thank you for sharing.
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