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EU votes to create gigantic biometrics database

zdnet.com

41–50 of 203 posts

Re: EU votes to create gigantic biometrics database

#41

Yet another step to make things more straightforwardly hackable for interested actors. Sorry for the cynicism, but I can't help thinking that all this digitalization and automation is just plain blessing for foreign intel agencies, if not the main goal.

I doubt that it is a goal to make it easier for foreign intel agencies to get this data. But I also strongly doubt that they are capable of preventing it ...

Re: EU votes to create gigantic biometrics database

#42
post #16
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you're never going to hold an EU passport or never enter the EU? Do you feel more comfortable giving the same information to the US?

It is still possible to hold an EU passport which does not contain any biometric data, even though it's getting harder and harder and I suspect the still available loopholes will be eliminated pretty soon. For example I live in an Eastern-European country that is also an EU member and I hold a passport which does not have any incorporated biometric data in it, but that only happens because I specifically chose a temp…

Wow, besides the possible expense, having a one year passport must be a pain. It's essentially valid for 6 months less the time of your trip since most places require six months validity beyond your departure from their jurisdiction. It's like you almost have to apply for a new passport for each trip! Also having a one year total duration is sure to attract attention from foreign authorities, they'll assume you're restricted for some reason. Telling them that you got it to avoid being fingerprinted is not going to please them.

If you want true misery, try getting flagged by the UK, EU or US and enjoy up getting detained for hours (in a holding cell) each time you try to cross their border.

Have you actually travelled on such a passport?

Re: EU votes to create gigantic biometrics database

#43
post #41

Yet another step to make things more straightforwardly hackable for interested actors. Sorry for the cynicism, but I can't help thinking that all this digitalization and automation is just plain blessing for foreign intel agencies, if not the main goal.

I doubt that it is a goal to make it easier for foreign intel agencies to get this data. But I also strongly doubt that they are capable of preventing it ...

No one said it's a goal. Just reality.

Re: EU votes to create gigantic biometrics database

#44
post #16
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you're never going to hold an EU passport or never enter the EU? Do you feel more comfortable giving the same information to the US?

It is still possible to hold an EU passport which does not contain any biometric data, even though it's getting harder and harder and I suspect the still available loopholes will be eliminated pretty soon. For example I live in an Eastern-European country that is also an EU member and I hold a passport which does not have any incorporated biometric data in it, but that only happens because I specifically chose a temp…

> giving your biometric info away

...you do realize that "biometric info" is the most easily accessible / stealable type of information. Anyone can grab your biometric infos easily if you become a person of interest, so it's hard to think of what you're practically gaining.

It's like Americans with their SSNs, this kind of information is practically public (ignoring legalese and crap), so trying to keep it away from a big database will only work up to a point. In a way things like the Equifax hack are a good thing because now anyone's SSN can be assumed public.

Sure, if you fancy a career in intelligence or as an undercover something, it would be a valuable personal asset to have "biometrics not recorded in databases X, Y and Z". But it only works until you're caught/recorded the first time. And if you're either "interesting enough" or a public person, anyone caring to track you surely already has your biometric infos.

(Otoh, assuming anyone managing that big EU db will be grossly incompetent is probably realistic :P)

Re: EU votes to create gigantic biometrics database

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely not the case in the UK - in fact there was quite fuss made when there was a plan a few years back to introduce ID cards. Mind you I suspect mostly people do carry 'official' identification documents on them most of the time (e.g. driving licenses) but there is no requirement to actually have these on you at all times.

My favorite song on the Pet Shop Boys' 2006 album Fundamental ("Integral") was a protest against Blair's Identity Cards Act "if you've done nothing wrong, you've got nothing to fear / if you've something to hide, you shouldn't even be here"

Also people of a certain age (like me) who associate "Papers please" with WW2 movies.

Re: EU votes to create gigantic biometrics database

#46
post #42
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is still possible to hold an EU passport which does not contain any biometric data, even though it's getting harder and harder and I suspect the still available loopholes will be eliminated pretty soon. For example I live in an Eastern-European country that is also an EU member and I hold a passport which does not have any incorporated biometric data in it, but that only happens because I specifically chose a temp…

Wow, besides the possible expense, having a one year passport must be a pain. It's essentially valid for 6 months less the time of your trip since most places require six months validity beyond your departure from their jurisdiction. It's like you almost have to apply for a new passport for each trip! Also having a one year total duration is sure to attract attention from foreign authorities, they'll assume you're re…

I have, it was no issue. Also, you can get it within the hour. But it is expensive and you will get some weird looks. I haven't tried going the US with it.

Re: EU votes to create gigantic biometrics database

#47
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt that it is a goal to make it easier for foreign intel agencies to get this data. But I also strongly doubt that they are capable of preventing it ...

No one said it's a goal. Just reality.

> if not the main goal.

Re: EU votes to create gigantic biometrics database

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention untrustworthy countries like the UK, Germany, and France.

[flagged]

It is plain stupid and negligent to give biometrical data to the German government. Your argument about the prevalence of bad guys in parliament is devoid of any reasonable conclusion in either direction. And certainly not sufficient for a general case for laws of this kind, as it lacks even a minimal justification for implementing surveillance on this scale.

But you obviously don't see right-wing parties as a threat, since they would get access to that data too. Although I would admit that they probably wouldn't accomplish anything that a Seehofer could do as well.

Re: EU votes to create gigantic biometrics database

#50
post #42
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is still possible to hold an EU passport which does not contain any biometric data, even though it's getting harder and harder and I suspect the still available loopholes will be eliminated pretty soon. For example I live in an Eastern-European country that is also an EU member and I hold a passport which does not have any incorporated biometric data in it, but that only happens because I specifically chose a temp…

Wow, besides the possible expense, having a one year passport must be a pain. It's essentially valid for 6 months less the time of your trip since most places require six months validity beyond your departure from their jurisdiction. It's like you almost have to apply for a new passport for each trip! Also having a one year total duration is sure to attract attention from foreign authorities, they'll assume you're re…

> Have you actually travelled on such a passport?

Yeah, I've travelled to Turkey pretty soon after I had it issued, in fact that was the main reason of me getting a passport and yes, I did sort of use it as a one-time thingie. It sure adds some extra costs (in real money and in opportunity costs) but I'm willing to eat them up, for the moment.

> is sure to attract attention from foreign authorities, they'll assume you're restricted for some reason. Telling them that you got it to avoid being fingerprinted is not going to please them.

That's one extra reason not to travel to countries that treat tourists/foreign people like crap.

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