Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

EU votes to create gigantic biometrics database

zdnet.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 203 posts

Re: EU votes to create gigantic biometrics database

#11

Post by tapland »

docdeek wrote: post #8
AdamGibbins wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The European Parliament voted last week to interconnect a series of border-control, migration, and law enforcement systems into a gigantic, biometrics-tracking, searchable database of EU and non-EU citizens. It is only people already known to the EU.

Understood - but most EU states would have a national ID card which would make them ‘known’ to their own government. Not sure if all include biometrics (I know that the ID cards here in France are not all like that, though passports today are) but national ID cards cover all adults and children. Just seems weird that they would not include a couple of hundred million people that they definitely know something about b…

At least in Sweden very few people use national id-cards. Most people have ones issued by banks. A lot of people became painfully aware of this when they were refused re-entry into the country with their other ID-cards when border checks towards Denmark were implemented, since it's common to commute to Copenhagen.

Most Swedes do have passports though.

Re: EU votes to create gigantic biometrics database

#12

Post by Daniel_sk »

tapland wrote: post #11
docdeek wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Understood - but most EU states would have a national ID card which would make them ‘known’ to their own government. Not sure if all include biometrics (I know that the ID cards here in France are not all like that, though passports today are) but national ID cards cover all adults and children. Just seems weird that they would not include a couple of hundred million people that they definitely know something about b…

At least in Sweden very few people use national id-cards. Most people have ones issued by banks. A lot of people became painfully aware of this when they were refused re-entry into the country with their other ID-cards when border checks towards Denmark were implemented, since it's common to commute to Copenhagen. Most Swedes do have passports though.

Interesting fact. I thought that having an ID card is pretty much mandatory in whole EU. In Slovakia you get one at age of 15 (I think) and it has biometric data - picture and fingerprints. You are not required by law to carry it with you, but it can cause delays if need to be verified by police or other authority. It’s also used to login into e-gov services with a card reader and your pin - but it’s quite limited at this point.

Re: EU votes to create gigantic biometrics database

#13

Post by dijit »

tapland wrote: post #11
docdeek wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Understood - but most EU states would have a national ID card which would make them ‘known’ to their own government. Not sure if all include biometrics (I know that the ID cards here in France are not all like that, though passports today are) but national ID cards cover all adults and children. Just seems weird that they would not include a couple of hundred million people that they definitely know something about b…

At least in Sweden very few people use national id-cards. Most people have ones issued by banks. A lot of people became painfully aware of this when they were refused re-entry into the country with their other ID-cards when border checks towards Denmark were implemented, since it's common to commute to Copenhagen. Most Swedes do have passports though.

> Most people have ones issued by banks

Mine was issued by Skatterverket which is the tax agency, no? Surely that's "Government issued ID".

In fact, I had to give them my fingerprint and iris scan when I got my card.

(Although I have been denied entry when coming back from Copenhagen with it; "It is not a travel document" was the reasoning which is completely against the Schengen agreement.)

Re: EU votes to create gigantic biometrics database

#14

Post by nutjob2 »

raxxorrax wrote: post #9
zaarn wrote: post #6

Merging existing databases into one big one might be more accurate but that's modern journalism.

Not quite. There is no database in some countries. I am not going to give the EU biometrical data, even if that means skipping some "services". Edit: I would also guess it is incompatible with recently introduced legislation.

So you're never going to hold an EU passport or never enter the EU?

Do you feel more comfortable giving the same information to the US?

Re: EU votes to create gigantic biometrics database

#15

Post by nutjob2 »

Daniel_sk wrote: post #12
tapland wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in Sweden very few people use national id-cards. Most people have ones issued by banks. A lot of people became painfully aware of this when they were refused re-entry into the country with their other ID-cards when border checks towards Denmark were implemented, since it's common to commute to Copenhagen. Most Swedes do have passports though.

Interesting fact. I thought that having an ID card is pretty much mandatory in whole EU. In Slovakia you get one at age of 15 (I think) and it has biometric data - picture and fingerprints. You are not required by law to carry it with you, but it can cause delays if need to be verified by police or other authority. It’s also used to login into e-gov services with a card reader and your pin - but it’s quite limited at…

In several EU countries you're required to carry id at all times. In the US Green Card holders are required to carry the card at all times.

Re: EU votes to create gigantic biometrics database

#16

Post by paganel »

nutjob2 wrote: post #14
raxxorrax wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not quite. There is no database in some countries. I am not going to give the EU biometrical data, even if that means skipping some "services". Edit: I would also guess it is incompatible with recently introduced legislation.

So you're never going to hold an EU passport or never enter the EU? Do you feel more comfortable giving the same information to the US?

It is still possible to hold an EU passport which does not contain any biometric data, even though it's getting harder and harder and I suspect the still available loopholes will be eliminated pretty soon.

For example I live in an Eastern-European country that is also an EU member and I hold a passport which does not have any incorporated biometric data in it, but that only happens because I specifically chose a temporary (meaning one-year) passport instead of the normal 5-year or 10-year passports, the latter requiring you giving your biometric info away. As I was saying, I suspect this loophole will be closed pretty soon.

Re: EU votes to create gigantic biometrics database

#17

Post by vixen99 »

raxxorrax wrote: post #9
zaarn wrote: post #6

Merging existing databases into one big one might be more accurate but that's modern journalism.

Not quite. There is no database in some countries. I am not going to give the EU biometrical data, even if that means skipping some "services". Edit: I would also guess it is incompatible with recently introduced legislation.

Good luck with that! For instance "New EU regulations for transaction authentication which go into effect next year are expected by Mastercard to significantly increase the use of biometrics for purchases". You can be sure that eventually no one will have a choice if they want to lead any kind of normal life. Obligatory capturing of biometric data at many airports is just getting going.

For the ex-USSR - the Soviet Republic, this vision of the future would have been a dream come true.

Re: EU votes to create gigantic biometrics database

#18

Post by ahje »

dijit wrote: post #13
tapland wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in Sweden very few people use national id-cards. Most people have ones issued by banks. A lot of people became painfully aware of this when they were refused re-entry into the country with their other ID-cards when border checks towards Denmark were implemented, since it's common to commute to Copenhagen. Most Swedes do have passports though.

> Most people have ones issued by banks Mine was issued by Skatterverket which is the tax agency, no? Surely that's "Government issued ID". In fact, I had to give them my fingerprint and iris scan when I got my card. (Although I have been denied entry when coming back from Copenhagen with it; "It is not a travel document" was the reasoning which is completely against the Schengen agreement.)

I was rather shocked when I tried to get across from Copenhagen to Malmö with a Finnish national ID card, only to discover it wasn't valid valid for entering Sweden. Luckily they saw reason and let me through after a while but it must be horrible for the daily commuters.

When I lived in Copenhagen a few years back the commuters numbered in the 10000's. I can imagine that number has gone down a lot recently.

Re: EU votes to create gigantic biometrics database

#19

Post by ahje »

Daniel_sk wrote: post #12
tapland wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in Sweden very few people use national id-cards. Most people have ones issued by banks. A lot of people became painfully aware of this when they were refused re-entry into the country with their other ID-cards when border checks towards Denmark were implemented, since it's common to commute to Copenhagen. Most Swedes do have passports though.

Interesting fact. I thought that having an ID card is pretty much mandatory in whole EU. In Slovakia you get one at age of 15 (I think) and it has biometric data - picture and fingerprints. You are not required by law to carry it with you, but it can cause delays if need to be verified by police or other authority. It’s also used to login into e-gov services with a card reader and your pin - but it’s quite limited at…

In the Nordic countries, ID isn't mandatory, and apart from a few border crossings between Denmark and Sweden, there are no border controls either. Apart from the aforementioned border controls, citizens of other Nordic countries aren't required to carry a passport or a national ID card, but should carry some kind of identification on them.

In practice, that means you just carry your regular driver's license in your wallet when crossing the border.

I hear there's a similar setup in the Benelux countries, so ID is definitely not mandatory in the entire EU.

Post reply on HN