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TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes

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Re: TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes

#231

Post by [deleted] »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #58
testvox wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because corporations are just groups of people operating as one legal entity as is required for many ventures which would be too expensive or risky for one person to take on by themselves. Do you think corporations like the New York Times should not have freedom of speech? Do you think the government should be able to arbitrary power against corporations like Planned Parenthood? Should governments have arbitrary powe…

> Do you think corporations like the New York Times should not have freedom of speech? I will admit i have not thought long and hard on this. But on the surface it seems like the answer is "Yes". But the individuals working in those corporations do. So when a journalist submits an article their free speech is protected as an individual rights extended through the corporation. Similarly for property rights... I think…

[deleted]

Re: TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes

#232

Post by yubiox »

I guess I will switch to freetaxusa next year. I've used turbotax for 25 years (I worked for Chipsoft, the previous owner before Intuit, in 1994). I found receipts going back to 2007: $99.98 $96.98 $61.98 $71.98 $86.98 $86.98 $66.98 $66.90 $66.90 $39.95 $19.95 $84.90 * They must have tricked me into clicking something for a bogus $50 deduction maximizer. $44.95

Re: TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes

#233

Post by testvox »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #58
testvox wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because corporations are just groups of people operating as one legal entity as is required for many ventures which would be too expensive or risky for one person to take on by themselves. Do you think corporations like the New York Times should not have freedom of speech? Do you think the government should be able to arbitrary power against corporations like Planned Parenthood? Should governments have arbitrary powe…

> Do you think corporations like the New York Times should not have freedom of speech? I will admit i have not thought long and hard on this. But on the surface it seems like the answer is "Yes". But the individuals working in those corporations do. So when a journalist submits an article their free speech is protected as an individual rights extended through the corporation. Similarly for property rights... I think…

But the NYT itself still makes legal decisions, like which articles to run. Lets say they decide to run a particular article which is later claimed by the government to be libelous. Since the NYT has no rights under your ideal the government could simply find them guilty of a felony without giving them due process of law and end their corporate existence.

I would argue that so long as corporations continue to exist they require a minimum amount of rights, such as a right to due process, or else they just become tools for the state to act without any of the restraints our current system has developed.

Re: TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes

#234

Post by zaidf »

sinatra wrote: post #158
briffle wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to try CreditKarma's free filing, but since its free, I'm the product, and i'm not sure what that means, when handing them all my tax info yet..

This statement, "If it's free, I'm the product" is becoming less and less relevant because, "Even if it's not free, I'm usually the product anyway" Think Comcast, Verizon, various Android phones, various modern TVs, etc.

Also: Apple.

Re: TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes

#235

Post by brocket »

scrooched_moose wrote: post #88
untog wrote: post #11

They're not perfect, but I've had success filing with FreeTaxUSA - federal is free, state is $15: https://www.freetaxusa.com/ Obviously too late for people this year, and my tax situation is relatively straightforward so I can't speak to how well it handles edge cases, but the first year I used it I went through the process with both TurboTax and FreeTaxUSA and got the exact same estimated refund. The last straw with…

CreditKarma is 100% free for everything. I've used them the last two years without issue, although they dramatically improved the service this last year. It was a little rough year 1.

Since it was my first year trying CreditKarma I decided to do my taxes with both CreditKarma and TurboTax to compare. CreditKarma matched TurboTax return amount exactly for me this year. I also found CreditKarma interface easier to navigate and it took me less time to complete. Would recommend over TurboTax (if you're eligible).

Re: TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes

#236

Post by brocket »

throwaway44562 wrote: post #186
scrooched_moose wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CreditKarma is 100% free for everything. I've used them the last two years without issue, although they dramatically improved the service this last year. It was a little rough year 1.

CreditKarma requires a non VOIP number before you can sign up for their tax app.

It also rejected my Google Voice number.

Re: TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes

#237

Post by sl1ck731 »

jschwartzi wrote: post #170
sl1ck731 wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in the camp that there should be no incentives for taxes for anything. Similarly there should be no difference in filing married vs separately or with children. To me it just feels wrong to incentivise living a certain lifestyle by getting a discount at just existing. It is great when it incentivises the things you want, such as hybrid cars or something, but what would happen if someone wanted to give you a disco…

It depends on whether you subscribe to the progressive ideology that people should be encouraged to do things that we see as good for them. For the record, I do. But if we decide that we want a society where more people make the uninformed decision to buy a gas-powered car or a diesel generator because it's understood to be a social good then that's fine. That's precisely what that tool is meant to be used for. Wheth…

The point is they aren't all based on societal good. The ones we use as individuals and like might be, but how many corporate tax incentives exist that are bad for everyday people?

It shouldn't be the IRS's business to reward people. If there is a reward for doing X then there should be a fund specifically for giving money to people in those scenarios completely independent of taxes.

Its much more transparent to say "we have a fund for X, mail us the required proof and we will send you a check", then it is to add layers and layers to the tax code. That also means everyday people are aware of what our representatives are arguing about and the dollar amounts being held responsible for the programs.

Then we get simple taxes without all of the itemizing nonsense.

Re: TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes

#238

Post by thfuran »

conanbatt wrote: post #178
thfuran wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not using or deriving benefit from the existence of roads, schools, the EPA, or the FDA?

Most I don't. And many of them work against me as well.

Unless you've never been outside, eaten food that was grown or raised outdoors, consumed water, used medicine or medical services, lived in proximity to other people or done business with...well, pretty much any business, I think you're mistaken.

Re: TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes

#239

Post by kickopotomus »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #9
alehul wrote: post #3

In my experience this year, TurboTax prompted me that I could save money by upgrading to a paid plan via taking advantage of some extra deduction. I thought, "if it's going to save me more than I pay for it, why not?" I clicked through and found that this deduction wouldn't actually save me any money. I then couldn't find a way to get back to the free plan (they only charge you after you file, so this should be possi…

The paid plan upgrade is based on which forms you input, not necessarily which deduction you get. So hypothetically, even if your best choice is the standard deduction, they expect you to pay if you have some of those other tax forms. I guess my question is, if you know the standard deduction is the right choice, can you just not input the tax forms that you don't need for that?

No, you need to file every tax form that applies to you. I assume you are talking about forms like the 1099-B, which TurboTax charges you to file (~$80 IIRC). If you don't file a form and the IRS knows about it, you will have a bad time.

Re: TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes

#240

Post by harryh »

int_19h wrote: post #220
harryh wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the most complexity inducing areas of the tax code, The Alternative Minimum Tax, has a lot more to do with taxing certain people extra than handing out any special privileges. That and form 8960 (Net Investment Income Tax Individuals, Estates, and Trusts) are both direct contradictions to you assertion.

The fact that we still tax capital gains way lower than personal income should already tell you volumes about who has special privileges in the tax code.

There are a lot of very good reasons to tax capital gains at lower rates than ordinary income. Among them:

  - The problem of notational vs real gains
  - The fact that capital gains are already taxed once at the corporate level
  - The fact that taxing capital gains is a tax on savings and we want to encourage savings and investment
  - All of the theory on how differentiated taxes on present vs future consumption is a flawed idea
    (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimal_capital_income_taxation)
Note that it's not just in the US that capital gains are taxed at a lower rate but in virtually all other modern economies. It's not just some trick.
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