71–80 of 186 posts
Congratulations on the release, Rich! Minor suggestion: it should be easier to find how to get started (read install) for people trying to give Svelte a try. I had already played a bit with Svelte before but wanted to try v3 and the only thing I could find about how to install it was in https://svelte.dev/blog/the-easiest-way-to-get-started .
"The magical disappearing UI framework" was a much better tagline than "Cybernetically enhanced web apps" …
> this.set is almost identical to the this.setState method used in classical (pre-hooks) React It's an amazing reflection on the velocity of the web & JS ecosystem that React APIs prior to hooks, which were shipped all of 3 months ago, can be sincerely referred to now as 'classical' :-)
This is really cool. That said, I noticed that it cites performance vs vdom as a selling point. Something I've been wondering lately is how big of an issue is UI performance for most web apps really? So many of the little apps and prototypes I develop aren't hurting for performance. It seems to me the industry made a huge leap from JQuery/Backbone/etc to reactive/vdom. But declarative UIs and virtual doms don't solve…
Svelte is intended to be exactly that!
Whether performance is an issue depends partly on the kind of app you're building. In my line of work (producing interactive data visualisations etc) it absolutely is. As I talk about here, it's going to become even more important as the 'embedded web' becomes a thing: https://youtu.be/AdNJ3fydeao?t=1498
Bonus thoughts on virtual DOM: https://svelte.dev/blog/virtual-dom-is-pure-overhead
I chose vue over react for simplicity and I'll be damned if I don't choose svelte over vue for the same reason and more after this talk.
Hey Rich if you're still lurking - I really like the Tutorial layout (even on mobile!) and how that all works. Is this something you built yourself or is there a re-usable component that I can use?
This is really cool. That said, I noticed that it cites performance vs vdom as a selling point. Something I've been wondering lately is how big of an issue is UI performance for most web apps really? So many of the little apps and prototypes I develop aren't hurting for performance. It seems to me the industry made a huge leap from JQuery/Backbone/etc to reactive/vdom. But declarative UIs and virtual doms don't solve…
> Are there any frameworks out there that provide a JSX/VueSFC/hyperscript development experience, without adding the complexity of a virtual dom implementation? Svelte is intended to be exactly that! Whether performance is an issue depends partly on the kind of app you're building. In my line of work (producing interactive data visualisations etc) it absolutely is. As I talk about here, it's going to become even mor…
I don't think my post was very clear. I agree that the run-time complexity of svelte is much better than a vdom framework, but it seems like you're just trading that for build-time complexity. Maybe that's the only way to achieve what I'm talking about though. At some point you have to translate from immediate mode to retained mode if you're rendering to the dom.
I also work in interactive visualizations. I think this is one of the areas (in addition to games especially) where vdoms quickly fall short. Once you start animating a lot of SVG elements, it doesn't matter much what framework is under the hood; it's going to crawl. Canvas/WebGL is the only real solution I'm aware of. Does svelte somehow provide a significant speedup in these situations? I obviously need to read up more on what your compiler is actually doing.
This is really cool. That said, I noticed that it cites performance vs vdom as a selling point. Something I've been wondering lately is how big of an issue is UI performance for most web apps really? So many of the little apps and prototypes I develop aren't hurting for performance. It seems to me the industry made a huge leap from JQuery/Backbone/etc to reactive/vdom. But declarative UIs and virtual doms don't solve…
It's really surprising that people put faith in virtual Dom implementations, when browsers have been optimized for decades for efficiency. With the right batching strategy that minimalistic libraries like FastDom [1] offer, there's no real reason to use the virtual Dom. A frequent argument for the use of vdom has been that it reduces Dom trashing. I am willing to bet that if a vdom library has figured out what elemen…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
We certainly debated this one over in the Discord channel...
What about "Faster web apps with less code?" or "Faster, smaller, web apps?" They seem to be the main benefits for using Svelte.
(Quick example: the countless hello world projects that result in >100KB bundles)
> Instead, Svelte runs at build time, converting your components into highly efficient imperative code that surgically updates the DOM. So, Svelte is compiled into web assembly? If not, given the emitted imperative code is less efficient than emitted web assembly and the emitted imperative code is less concise than the original declarative code, then what would be the advantage of an imperative translation of the dec…
The code you write in Svelte is reactive/declarative, emitted code is regular imperative JS.