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Otonomo, with nearly $55M in funding, is cloning our product

smartcar.com

171–180 of 637 posts

Re: Otonomo, with nearly $55M in funding, is cloning our product

#171
> 0facda3319

That's bad for sure.

However, most "Oauth2 flow" documentation pages look like that. They all have a table that's basically copied out of the Oauth2 spec. They all have very similar language.

This is a good thing. Oauth2 is a well defined spec, and there just isn't a lot of ambiguity there.

If it weren't for the copied random state, I'd shrug this off.

Re: Otonomo, with nearly $55M in funding, is cloning our product

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bessemer & Co. likely know that Otonomo is building a drop-in replacement copy of Smartcar's API. I'm not sure there's anything terribly controversial about that, although reasonable people may disagree. Bessemer & Co. probably don't know that the docs are literally being copied though.

A literal copy would show up during tech DD. If they did not flag it that's their problem, if they did flag it it is still their problem.

How do we know that the investment predates the public api documentation?

Re: Otonomo, with nearly $55M in funding, is cloning our product

#173
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it possible?

You will need additional hardware in the car to achieve this. Smartcar just does a really thorough job of hiding this fact. AFAIK the is not a single car manufacturer (not even Tesla) that has any API available. Most cars don't have internet connectivity anyway. Disclosure: I do NOT work for Smartcar, but have build multiple backends for P2P carsharing and bike rental platforms.

Disclosure: I used to work for Smartcar.

This is patently false. Smartcar does not require additional hardware. Quoting from their product page:

> Our API works with the embedded telematics module built into most new vehicles. No need for aftermarket hardware like OBD2 dongles.

Re: Otonomo, with nearly $55M in funding, is cloning our product

#174

That is pretty egregious, and its also par for the course. And that is why startup companies go through all the hoops of being "stealth" and having NDAs and what not. There was a German VC firm that was, as I recall, very upfront about this. Clone a successful US company before it got to the European market. On the one hand it is great to have validation of the idea, on the other its a pain to have someone with more…

There was a German VC firm that was, as I recall, very upfront about this. Clone a successful US company before it got to the European market. The Chinese also do this. (As in, the government seems to encourage it outright.) The culture and language barrier do make for an effective moat. It usually takes significant effort and even some cultural change for a company to get its legs for international operation.

> The Chinese

You mean "Chinese companies". "The chinese" is just racist.

Re: Otonomo, with nearly $55M in funding, is cloning our product

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A literal copy would show up during tech DD. If they did not flag it that's their problem, if they did flag it it is still their problem.

How do we know that the investment predates the public api documentation?

Bessemer's last round was a series 'B', by then the bits and pieces would have all been in place, whether it was public or not isn't even all that important.

It does raise an interesting question though: how will the OP prove that their work is the original, that might hinge on a lot of unknowns, more difficult still if the work was originally lifted by an employee of the company and then passed on to Otonomo with them being the unwitting recipients.

Re: Otonomo, with nearly $55M in funding, is cloning our product

#176

That is pretty egregious, and its also par for the course. And that is why startup companies go through all the hoops of being "stealth" and having NDAs and what not. There was a German VC firm that was, as I recall, very upfront about this. Clone a successful US company before it got to the European market. On the one hand it is great to have validation of the idea, on the other its a pain to have someone with more…

>The reality is that if an idea is really good, the people who came up with it know it better than anyone and that gives them a tremendous advantage in terms of knowing what is important and what isn't. I have to disagree with you emphasizing this point. If someone/entity manages to get your idea or code, they may be able to sell the solution at a fraction of the cost since their R&D was lower than yours. When the en…

At $55M in funding they won’t be undercutting anything - quite the opposite, they’ll need to turn a healthy profit or die.

Re: Otonomo, with nearly $55M in funding, is cloning our product

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bessemer & Co. would not spend this kind of money without doing DD to the point where their competitive review would have snagged the OP's efforts. So most likely they know.

> without doing DD It's a Series A, serious DD doesn't usually happen this early and a jr. analyst with a finance background wouldn't catch something like this.

The latest participation by Bessemer was a series 'B' as far as I can tell:

https://otonomo.io/pr/otonomo-announces-25-million-strategic...

And even then, series 'A' requires DD as much (and sometimes more so) as later rounds.

Re: Otonomo, with nearly $55M in funding, is cloning our product

#178

This almost scares me away from even trying to start a business - I have no idea how to compete if someone with more money tries to steal it. It seems the solutions are: 1. Do some accelerator to get connections and money. 2. Just do it and hope you don't get stomped.

I used to have these feelings as well.

I'm soon to be jumping into a crowded market as well. Many of my competitors have had VC funding and do billions per year.

It doesn't bother me in the slightest. I can be far more nimble than they can. Doesn't matter if they try and stomp me. A bigger company will always do something in their own interests and piss off a segment of their customer base which means they will move eventually.

Not only that, because I don't have VC funding. I can always have lower prices CapEx and move it OpEx instead. As long as I am much lower costs compared to being with the incumbents then it's a better prospect cost wise to my customers.

Finally, better customer service, features, ease of use, pricing and roi to the customer is what matters at the end of the day. If you simply have a much better product and able to generate and retain trust in your user base. You'll be alright.

My advice. Just start the business today. Whether or not you get stomped on is neither here or there. What matters most is the experience you'll get vs in 5 years time when you wish you had started and still scared!

Re: Otonomo, with nearly $55M in funding, is cloning our product

#179

That is pretty egregious, and its also par for the course. And that is why startup companies go through all the hoops of being "stealth" and having NDAs and what not. There was a German VC firm that was, as I recall, very upfront about this. Clone a successful US company before it got to the European market. On the one hand it is great to have validation of the idea, on the other its a pain to have someone with more…

>The reality is that if an idea is really good, the people who came up with it know it better than anyone and that gives them a tremendous advantage in terms of knowing what is important and what isn't. I have to disagree with you emphasizing this point. If someone/entity manages to get your idea or code, they may be able to sell the solution at a fraction of the cost since their R&D was lower than yours. When the en…

I tend to agree with the original comment, particularly for products that are still evolving.

We have a competitor who copies our features, but they don't know why we built the feature. The result is they end up copying the wrong stuff or tweaking the feature in a way that completely misses the point.

But, I agree with you in that creating a feature isn't an advantage in and of itself. Rather, it is the domain expertise that led to the creation of the feature that is the true advantage.

Re: Otonomo, with nearly $55M in funding, is cloning our product

#180
post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a German VC firm that was, as I recall, very upfront about this. Clone a successful US company before it got to the European market. The Chinese also do this. (As in, the government seems to encourage it outright.) The culture and language barrier do make for an effective moat. It usually takes significant effort and even some cultural change for a company to get its legs for international operation.

> The Chinese You mean "Chinese companies". "The chinese" is just racist.

I'm Chinese and I didn't think it was racist. I interpreted the assertion as a description of the Chinese government, not Chinese people.
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