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TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes

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Re: TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes

#51

Post by JohnFen »

aeturnum wrote: post #33

I encountered this with H&R block when I had a particularly complex tax situation a few years back (had worked as a contractor for several corporate entities and also had the tail end of full time work plus investment income). H&R block quoted me 3-4 rates, insisting I pay them more money at each step to finish the process. I realize it's hard because the number of complications that can come up in filing taxes is di…

If your taxes are complex enough to warrant having a tax preparer handle them for you, I recommend avoiding H&R Block. Instead, ask your colleagues, friends, and family for recommendations for an independent tax preparer rather than a chain.

Re: TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes

#52

Post by 0x54D5 »

I pirate it every year because fuck Intuit. I also got rid of my Mint account.

I always print and mail in my state taxes.

I always save both in the proprietary format and to PDF and sync to my Dropbox. This way any irreversible problems are versioned and possible to reverse.

I will NEVER EVER use their website. I'd rather schlep to an accountant and have an actual person to talk to.

For those asking... how does that work? Well the normal CD version of Turbotax just assumes as long as it's installed and on your computer that it was obtained legally so there's no need for a crack or anything like that. You simply can't E-File the state taxes without paying a fee. Easy to avoid by simply printing it out, signing, and sticking a stamp on an envelope.

I've been doing this for 8 years and I've never paid a dime to Intuit. And I never will.

Any Congress critter that actually makes it easier to vote using only federal software and which takes care of complex situations like stocks and other capital gains will have my vote for life.

Re: TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes

#53

Post by SilasX »

asimpletune wrote: post #30

Credit Karma does a good job providing free federal and state tax filing. Disclaimer: I work there but not on tax

Not for me, since moving to a different state within the year is apparently too complicated for them.

I hate to look a gift horse in the mouth, though.

Re: TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes

#54

Post by stetrain »

mruts wrote: post #20
SilasX wrote: post #4

I almost got burned by one of those myself. Until I checked the fine print at the end, I didn’t realize there was a separate $40 charge for paying for TurboTax out of your refund (rather than with a credit card). That can’t cost anything on their end and seems designed to target people who don’t have the money lying around.

I mean, that sounds like a pretty fair service to me: offering short-term credit while also streamlining the customer acquisition process.

If it's a fair service then they should be able to be obvious and upfront about the difference between the two options.

Re: TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes

#55

Post by anilshanbhag »

untog wrote: post #11

They're not perfect, but I've had success filing with FreeTaxUSA - federal is free, state is $15: https://www.freetaxusa.com/ Obviously too late for people this year, and my tax situation is relatively straightforward so I can't speak to how well it handles edge cases, but the first year I used it I went through the process with both TurboTax and FreeTaxUSA and got the exact same estimated refund. The last straw with…

I was seriously considering running ads for FreeTaxUSA out of disgust for TurboTax, it is sad that information flows so slowly through the world :/

Re: TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes

#56

Post by SilasX »

sputknick wrote: post #37
mruts wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, that sounds like a pretty fair service to me: offering short-term credit while also streamlining the customer acquisition process.

A few years ago my finance class had a homework assignment which was to calculate the interest rate you were paying for this "service". It was a good assignment, because there is no "right" answer, because it depends how you define certain values, but all the figures came back with this "service" is like a loan with a 40-80% interest rate.

A 40-80% rate per week!

If it's just regular filing, that's something like $70, and the IRS pays the refund in about a week. TurboTax claims they vouche for the validity of the filing, so there's little risk of it not coming through, and even if it does, they can just say, "oops, we can't file for you until you do XYZ" and boom, they didn't finish providing the service.

So, that's a $40 loan on $70 of principle, or 57% for that week. Annualized -- to make it commensurate with other interest rates -- that's (1.57)^52 = a f---ing lot.

Re: TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes

#57

Post by wycy »

OrgNet wrote: post #45

H&R Block try to get you to pay at every other page while you are filling your return... But I still went with them because the last 2 years I filled the forms online at a couple different companies and H&R Block was getting me more back.

Your taxes should come out the same no matter where you fill them out. If you get different numbers between services, you're missing something on one of them.

Re: TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes

#58

Post by maerF0x0 »

testvox wrote: post #49
maerF0x0 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont even understand how corporations have rights... My understanding is that in a democratic system the individual voter is the unit of currency. Sadly this gets muddied in a sea of "representatives" and lobby groups which claim to represent people...

Because corporations are just groups of people operating as one legal entity as is required for many ventures which would be too expensive or risky for one person to take on by themselves. Do you think corporations like the New York Times should not have freedom of speech? Do you think the government should be able to arbitrary power against corporations like Planned Parenthood? Should governments have arbitrary powe…

> Do you think corporations like the New York Times should not have freedom of speech?

I will admit i have not thought long and hard on this. But on the surface it seems like the answer is "Yes".

But the individuals working in those corporations do. So when a journalist submits an article their free speech is protected as an individual rights extended through the corporation. Similarly for property rights...

I think the idea i'm trying to get at is that these corporations shouldnt have influence beyond the voting power they represent, ie the people.

Speaking of ideals, for example a hypothetical single employee business w/ billions in wealth should have 1 unit of political power, whereas a public interest group with a few thousand of dollars but 100 people should have 100 units of political power.

Edit: Corrected my "No" --> "Yes" because the question sentence was confusing

Re: TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes

#59

Post by SilasX »

stetrain wrote: post #54
mruts wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, that sounds like a pretty fair service to me: offering short-term credit while also streamlining the customer acquisition process.

If it's a fair service then they should be able to be obvious and upfront about the difference between the two options.

Right, especially since it's so counterintuitive -- paying with a credit card usually costs them more so you don't expect that paying out of the refund would be the more expensive option.

In fairness, I may have missed something more obvious in the UX.

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