TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes • Hacker News Board

Re: TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes

#31

Post by rootusrootus » Mon, Apr 22, 2019, 2:38 PM UTC

1024core wrote: post #8

The real dark pattern is their ability to bribe the Congress into preventing IRS from implementing free filing.

While Intuit definitely feeds Congress some money in support of their corporate goals, the lack of free tax filing is probably more Grover Norquist's fault. He strongly opposes anything that would make paying taxes easier, and he has a lot more influence than Intuit.

Re: TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes

#32

Post by swsieber » Mon, Apr 22, 2019, 2:39 PM UTC

athenot wrote: post #16

TaxAct has one dark pattern where they slide in a question in the middle where they basically ask your consent for marketing stuff to you. It's confusingly worded in a way to make it sound like you'll unlock additional savings. But the good part is you can decline that, and the rest of the time they stick to the task at hand. Now they do have separate pricing tiers based on your needs but I don't find that dishonest.…

They are required by law to let you know that you can opt out.

Re: TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes

#33

Post by aeturnum » Mon, Apr 22, 2019, 2:40 PM UTC

I encountered this with H&R block when I had a particularly complex tax situation a few years back (had worked as a contractor for several corporate entities and also had the tail end of full time work plus investment income). H&R block quoted me 3-4 rates, insisting I pay them more money at each step to finish the process.

I realize it's hard because the number of complications that can come up in filing taxes is difficult to enumerate and customers may not know their exact status.... Even so, I'd say the current setup that these companies use is very scammy and unethical.

Re: TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes

#34

Post by rectang » Mon, Apr 22, 2019, 2:41 PM UTC

1024core wrote: post #8

The real dark pattern is their ability to bribe the Congress into preventing IRS from implementing free filing.

It's the inevitable consequence of strengthening corporate rights relative to individual rights: corporations take ever larger ownership of government.

Re: TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes

#35

Post by pwinnski » Mon, Apr 22, 2019, 2:42 PM UTC

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #19

res0nat0r wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone should just use freetaxusa.com. I've used it for years, the UI looks almost the same as TurboTax and costs like 12$ total to file both state and federal.

Can I point on the inherent irony of recommending a site called "free"taxusa that costs $12 to file?

In Texas, or any other state without state income tax, it's $0. The federal part is always free.

Re: TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes

#36

Post by Geeek » Mon, Apr 22, 2019, 2:44 PM UTC

That's why I don't feel bad pirating their software for the past 5 years. They are scum and are not playing fair.

Re: TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes

#37

Post by sputknick » Mon, Apr 22, 2019, 2:49 PM UTC

mruts wrote: post #20

SilasX wrote: post #4

I almost got burned by one of those myself. Until I checked the fine print at the end, I didn’t realize there was a separate $40 charge for paying for TurboTax out of your refund (rather than with a credit card). That can’t cost anything on their end and seems designed to target people who don’t have the money lying around.

I mean, that sounds like a pretty fair service to me: offering short-term credit while also streamlining the customer acquisition process.

A few years ago my finance class had a homework assignment which was to calculate the interest rate you were paying for this "service". It was a good assignment, because there is no "right" answer, because it depends how you define certain values, but all the figures came back with this "service" is like a loan with a 40-80% interest rate.

Re: TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes

#38

Post by nathanaldensr » Mon, Apr 22, 2019, 2:49 PM UTC

holtalanm wrote: post #29

I have never used TurboTax, but I have used H&R Block online filing every year of my adult life, and haven't had any issues. One year I was curious about my refund (thought I was paying more than I should) and brought my return in to an actual brick & mortar H & R Block office, and they told me that my return just about perfect, but they urged me to increase my monthly withholdings to avoid paying taxes at tax season…

Not sure why you were downvoted. I used to use TurboTax until about a decade ago when I switched to H&R Block. In my opinion H&R Block's UX is superior to TurboTax's and I didn't run into nearly as many dark patterns as I used to. Granted, TurboTax's website could've (and apparently did) change a lot in the time being.

It's always best to try and get a $0 refund with $0 owed. Big refunds may seem cool but you are really just making an interest-free loan to the government.

Re: TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes

#39

Post by sgc » Mon, Apr 22, 2019, 2:53 PM UTC

athenot wrote: post #16

TaxAct has one dark pattern where they slide in a question in the middle where they basically ask your consent for marketing stuff to you. It's confusingly worded in a way to make it sound like you'll unlock additional savings. But the good part is you can decline that, and the rest of the time they stick to the task at hand. Now they do have separate pricing tiers based on your needs but I don't find that dishonest.…

The entire dark pattern is creating a fucking painful and confusing q+a that is incredibly difficult to go back and edit, instead of just showing me a form to fill out, with hover over info bubbles that show me the actual IRS explanations of each field. But that would show the only reason why we are using them is to e file, because their system is much more difficult than the IRS', and they have been able to keep anything but the most rudimentary e filing off the IRS site.

Re: TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes

#40

Post by itchyjunk » Mon, Apr 22, 2019, 2:53 PM UTC

I know very little about filing tax and I was helping someone equally clueless this year. The 10+ prompts and tricks to try and get us to upgrade was fine, but we suddenly ended up in a page that was asking permission to request free credit score. I wanted no part of it and the person with me was frustrated enough and wanted to just accept it. Clearing browser and re-logging was the only way to get out of that screen and it put us in the initial page. No idea what that was about but I figured that is the `price to pay` for dealing with free software.