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There is no talent

timeless.judofyr.net

21–30 of 144 posts

Re: There is no talent

#21
post #15
post #9

I've been making this argument for years, its funny how many people just flat out dont agree with it. My stance is that there is no talent, just understanding and without physical limitations, anything could be understood by anyone. I first came to this conclusion in art class when I was about 15. A girl asked me to draw a traffic light for her (I am a pretty decent artist) and I said no, but explained how to do it a…

Would love to hear your explanation. I'm a terrible drawer, and would love to become better.

Ha, it had something to do with drawing a 3d rectangle and erasing the inner lines, adding some ovals on the front face of it. Then drawing a straight line at the top of the oval as the top of the light cover and then drawing a skewed omega-like shape (Ω think hat brim) from the middle of the oval to line and on to the other side (like [this hat brim](http://www.faqs.org/photo-dict/photofiles/list/674/1084baseb...)

I think about that from time to time as it really changed my life. This past summer I helped my son create a video game from scratch (using scratch :), he was 8 at the time. All artwork, sounds, logic came from his head with my guidance. He kinda fears playing a new sport, but when we get the fundamentals down, that fear goes away. It's fun watching him grow, I learn a lot and it really supports my theory of "talent doesnt exist"

Re: There is no talent

#22
post #19

100% disagree. I could try my entire life and I will never be able to sing like Josh Groban, or compose music like Mozart, or win the Iron Man Strongest Man competition, or beat Lance Armstrong in the Tour de France. Yes, a LOT of success comes from effort, but to say that talent doesn't exist is absurd. People who have a talent in a given field, AND work with and hone that talent will always do better than people wi…

I really disagree with you. You say you could never compose music like Mozart, but how do you know? What if you worked at it every day for the rest of your life? Are you really certain you could never reach his level? (And bear in mind he is an extreme case.) You should read this piece by Derek Sivers called "After 15 years of practice...": http://sivers.org/15-years . Quick excerpt (but really, read the whole piece)…

He doesn't know, but many many people have composed a lot of music, many with as much passion as the OP has put into computers; but Mozart and a handful of others stand out as something above and beyond. What, if not talent, is what separates the great from the very-good?

Re: There is no talent

#23
post #18
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe, in the line of thinking in this essay: results = effort x time

Yes, but according to my experience, this essay is incorrect in assuming that talent doesn't matter [1]. So if you really want to be more precise: results = talent x effort x time Which means, talent is multiplier. If you take multiple people with different amounts of talent, let them work for equal amount of time on something with equal intensity and focus, you will get very different results. ---- [1] All people fr…

Actually, I really do agree with your equation. So more effort can overcome some lack of talent, or talent can overcome lack of time, etc. And like you mentioned, the top post said most of us will never sing like Josh Groban ... so true. Same with athletics. Same with science/math/computers. Some people just don't have the same talents, some effort can overcome that, but it's not a cure-all if, say, you just simply can't sing.

Re: There is no talent

#24

"You will look around and find other people at your age who are way better than you at playing guitar, skating or singing. How can you possibly be as good as them? They must have a talent for it! But in reality, all they did was starting earlier than you or have been spending more time doing it." Hogwash. I started singing and playing guitar at the same time as some friends of mine. We spent the same amount of time -…

Is it at least not possible that your friends used their learning time better than you? They push themselves harder, it was more active, present, focused time?

Re: There is no talent

#25
post #16
post #9

I've been making this argument for years, its funny how many people just flat out dont agree with it. My stance is that there is no talent, just understanding and without physical limitations, anything could be understood by anyone. I first came to this conclusion in art class when I was about 15. A girl asked me to draw a traffic light for her (I am a pretty decent artist) and I said no, but explained how to do it a…

that difference... innate or easier understanding + the ability to execute it IS talent

I feel that things could be broken down so that anyone could understand. Those scenes in movies where the teacher finally breaks through to the kids by relating the subject matter to something that they care about may seem like bs, but I feel that approach really works. I think that is the foundation of the argument for smaller classroom sizes -- the teach can focus in on how to target each student's learning style instead of a watered down general approach. The desire to execute isn't something that could be given or taught to someone though.

I have the same feeling about luck as I do with talent. I read the famous quote "luck is when opportunity meets preparedness" and I've lived that way since.

Re: There is no talent

#26
You will look around and find other people at your age who are way better than you at playing guitar... in reality, all they did was starting earlier than you or have been spending more time doing it.

I don't want to disagree with this essay... to first order. But it's important not to take the emphasis on passion too far.

Because this hypothesis doesn't explain the existence of passionate but untalented people. Such people exist. Dear god, do they exist. There are people who play a hell of a lot of guitar and are nevertheless not very good. There are people who write a lot of novels and stories but can't produce enjoyable prose, or sellable prose.

To paraphrase Edison, success is 90% perspiration. But that still leaves 10% for inspiration. You need directed passion, and the ability to properly channel and manage your passion is a talent. It might not be an inherited talent -- you can develop it -- but you need to do more than just noodle around for more hours than the other noodlers. You need to develop a specific constellation of skills in order to make progress.

At the risk of overgeneralizing, the most important talent is meta-analysis. You have to be able to self-analyze and self-correct. (If you can't hear the fact that you're unable to play on the beat or keep a steady rhythm it doesn't matter how many guitar chords you know.) You need the social skills and awareness to seek out criticism, listen to it, and act upon it. (If you don't hear your fellow musicians dropping hints, or don't act upon those hints, you won't get better.) And you have to cultivate abilities that may seem unrelated to the problem at hand... because you recognize, consciously or instinctively, that they are essential to your goal. (Professional scientists, for example, need a lot of sales, political, management, and literary skills. And, famously, our stock consumer PCs ship with lots of fonts in part because Steve Jobs audited a calligraphy class during his brief career as a college dropout.)

Re: There is no talent

#28
post #19

100% disagree. I could try my entire life and I will never be able to sing like Josh Groban, or compose music like Mozart, or win the Iron Man Strongest Man competition, or beat Lance Armstrong in the Tour de France. Yes, a LOT of success comes from effort, but to say that talent doesn't exist is absurd. People who have a talent in a given field, AND work with and hone that talent will always do better than people wi…

I really disagree with you. You say you could never compose music like Mozart, but how do you know? What if you worked at it every day for the rest of your life? Are you really certain you could never reach his level? (And bear in mind he is an extreme case.) You should read this piece by Derek Sivers called "After 15 years of practice...": http://sivers.org/15-years . Quick excerpt (but really, read the whole piece)…

Mozart was a guy who was on his way to possibly becoming history's best maker of music, except he died an unfortunately early death at the age of 35. He was writing tuneful, listenable, harmonious music at the age of four. This is a level of talent far beyond what Sivers was talking about.

Re: There is no talent

#29
What about curiosity?

Maybe you're wrapping that up in "passion", but I've seen people spend years using one program on the computer and never think to click on anything other than the buttons they're familiar with. I think curiosity plays a HUGE role in learning.

Re: There is no talent

#30
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really disagree with you. You say you could never compose music like Mozart, but how do you know? What if you worked at it every day for the rest of your life? Are you really certain you could never reach his level? (And bear in mind he is an extreme case.) You should read this piece by Derek Sivers called "After 15 years of practice...": http://sivers.org/15-years . Quick excerpt (but really, read the whole piece)…

Mozart was a guy who was on his way to possibly becoming history's best maker of music, except he died an unfortunately early death at the age of 35. He was writing tuneful, listenable, harmonious music at the age of four . This is a level of talent far beyond what Sivers was talking about.

Let me ask, what were you doing at age 4?

IIRC 4 year olds have a lot of free time (to practice etc...)

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