China Bans the Word 'Leica' on Social Media • Hacker News Board

Re: China Bans the Word 'Leica' on Social Media

#51

Post by jccalhoun » Sun, Apr 21, 2019, 7:50 PM UTC

spectramax wrote: post #20

Powerful ad. My gut feeling is that there will be a day in the future where everything in China is going to boil-over just like any other totalitarian regimes in the past. It could be 20 years from now when Xi dies or some type of student uprising again, or could be from the HK/Taiwan situation. The behavior of the Chinese government and as they call it "the hand of Beijing" has a self-propelling streisand effect, th…

Honestly, the few times I've tried to bring it up with Chinese students at USA universities they have all been blasé about it. They have all been, "that's just the way it is."

That could be because they just don't want to talk about it. Or because they are mostly from rich families and so they really don't care. Or only kids from loyal families are allowed to go to school overseas.

Re: China Bans the Word 'Leica' on Social Media

#52

Post by maehwasu » Sun, Apr 21, 2019, 7:50 PM UTC

spectramax wrote: post #41

rossenberg79 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As westerners I feel this is natural to think, and makes sense to us, but having been in China several times I'm not so sure. The value systems in Asia are far different, and people are much more collective where as we are a more individualist society with different thoughts about individual freedom. I doubt China could have become as strong as it is today without it's long history of authoritarian regimes, and I fee…

This is not a very compelling argument - "They're different from us, therefore we are not in a position to comment." There is a tremendous understanding, analysis and comprehension of totalitarianism in the west. Even in popular culture, say 1984 by George Orwell.

Analyzing widely differing cultures and peoples under the unitary framework of “totalitarianism” isn’t terribly compelling either. The Chinese government has shown remarkable staying power, and it’s important to analyze the ways/reasons it might continue to hold power, since that seems to be a quite likely outcome.

The intuition that western liberal democracy is some sort of inevitable wave is very possibly just an artifact of the US winning WWII.

Re: China Bans the Word 'Leica' on Social Media

#53

Post by jccalhoun » Sun, Apr 21, 2019, 7:53 PM UTC

HNthrow22 wrote: post #38

Why are discussions surrounding Chinese Politics permitted but no other political discussions? Seems like a double standard. Just quickly looking at the removals here's a 4 hour old Mueller report thread instantly removed - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19712217 .

I would guess because this has a social media and business aspect to it rather than just pure politics.

Re: China Bans the Word 'Leica' on Social Media

#54

Post by maehwasu » Sun, Apr 21, 2019, 7:53 PM UTC

devoply wrote: post #3

Would it not be better for these idiots to simply apologize for Tienanmen Square and promise not to do it again? And also stop all their asshole human right violations?

How would that help the government achieve its goal of maintaining power, in any way?

Re: China Bans the Word 'Leica' on Social Media

#55

Post by ufmace » Sun, Apr 21, 2019, 7:53 PM UTC

HNthrow22 wrote: post #38

Why are discussions surrounding Chinese Politics permitted but no other political discussions? Seems like a double standard. Just quickly looking at the removals here's a 4 hour old Mueller report thread instantly removed - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19712217 .

This is more about how politics affects the tech world, not politics for its own sake. Mueller investigation drama doesn't really have anything to do with tech.

Re: China Bans the Word 'Leica' on Social Media

#56

Post by ashelmire » Sun, Apr 21, 2019, 7:57 PM UTC

Another western corporation loses its spine in pursuit of profits. "Hey, sorry we mentioned that time you murdered thousands of your own citizens, it's totally a fake event. Please let us keep selling things in your country."

One day, maybe, this cowardly behavior will end.

Re: China Bans the Word 'Leica' on Social Media

#57

Post by pmlnr » Sun, Apr 21, 2019, 8:01 PM UTC

_0w8t wrote: post #39

spectramax wrote: post #20

Powerful ad. My gut feeling is that there will be a day in the future where everything in China is going to boil-over just like any other totalitarian regimes in the past. It could be 20 years from now when Xi dies or some type of student uprising again, or could be from the HK/Taiwan situation. The behavior of the Chinese government and as they call it "the hand of Beijing" has a self-propelling streisand effect, th…

Totalitarian regime in North Korea seems pretty stable after 70 years. Ancient Egypt was extremely totalitarian regime yet its worst period lasted centuries.

Don't compare 3000BC to internet times.

Re: China Bans the Word 'Leica' on Social Media

#58

Post by vageli » Sun, Apr 21, 2019, 8:01 PM UTC

rebuilder wrote: post #42

0815test wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not even "China" that's directly responsible for most of these decisions, really. It's each private company individually trying to figure out how to keep the Chinese government happy and on their side. That's why these things are inherently unpredictable. Sometimes you can even see seemingly-coordinated behavior that's actually the result of bandwagoning - e.g. if one company bans "Leica" on their social media s…

That's a good point. What would it even look like if there was an official, authoritative list of things to be censored, with draconian enforcement? Xi Jinping isn't going to personally decide what goes on the list. He's certainly not going to personally adjudicate the myriad edge cases. Inevitably the system must devolve into a lot of individuals making conflicting decisions. I see no way to have a cohesive, officia…

> That's a good point. What would it even look like if there was an official, authoritative list of things to be censored, with draconian enforcement? Xi Jinping isn't going to personally decide what goes on the list. He's certainly not going to personally adjudicate the myriad edge cases. Inevitably the system must devolve into a lot of individuals making conflicting decisions.

> I see no way to have a cohesive, official censorship apparatus with centralized control, unless the method employed simply involves cutting cables. That would be pretty unambiguous.

Social control and censorship is far more effective than governmental censorship. Being "excommunicated" or ostracized from your social group is enough to prohibit many people from making political expressions (or otherwise).

For a dumb but illustrative example, think about how your posting habits on social media might change if your relatives were receiving those posts.

The best part is that it allows the government to indirectly encourage practices and behavior that would likely receive criticism in the global community if done directly.

Re: China Bans the Word 'Leica' on Social Media

#59

Post by whoopdedo » Sun, Apr 21, 2019, 8:02 PM UTC

spectramax wrote: post #41

rossenberg79 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As westerners I feel this is natural to think, and makes sense to us, but having been in China several times I'm not so sure. The value systems in Asia are far different, and people are much more collective where as we are a more individualist society with different thoughts about individual freedom. I doubt China could have become as strong as it is today without it's long history of authoritarian regimes, and I fee…

This is not a very compelling argument - "They're different from us, therefore we are not in a position to comment." There is a tremendous understanding, analysis and comprehension of totalitarianism in the west. Even in popular culture, say 1984 by George Orwell.

> therefore we are not in a position to comment.

I did not read anything of the sort in that response. It stated that respondent disagreed with your conclusion and explained why. Are you conflating a difference of opinion with suppression of free expression? That does not seem a healthy attitude to have.

Re: China Bans the Word 'Leica' on Social Media

#60

Post by stonogo » Sun, Apr 21, 2019, 8:02 PM UTC

ufmace wrote: post #55

HNthrow22 wrote: post #38

Why are discussions surrounding Chinese Politics permitted but no other political discussions? Seems like a double standard. Just quickly looking at the removals here's a 4 hour old Mueller report thread instantly removed - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19712217 .

This is more about how politics affects the tech world, not politics for its own sake. Mueller investigation drama doesn't really have anything to do with tech.

That's a weird take, since huge sections of the report deal with Wikileaks, email server administration, and social media manipulation.