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China Bans the Word 'Leica' on Social Media

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Re: China Bans the Word 'Leica' on Social Media

#21

Post by wutbrodo »

spectramax wrote: post #16
0815test wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The playbook of all dictatorships is the same: squeeze tighter and tighter until you can no longer hold on, then collapse. While a common-enough failure mode, this is by no means universal. Many successful monarchies began as the equivalent of dictatorships, and then opened up further and further over time.

Please provide examples.

Off the top of my head, Britain, Spain, Portugal, and Chile (and Canada and Australia, if you want to cheat). Do you really think that every liberal Western European democracy had their own version of the French Revolution, or that they've been democracies since time immemorial?

Re: China Bans the Word 'Leica' on Social Media

#22

Post by libeclipse »

> The dramatic video is set in 1989 during the Tiananmen Square pro-democracy protests that are forbidden to talk about in China.

> the company is now distancing itself from the 5-minute video after Chinese social media users cried foul

> “Do you even deserve to collaborate with our patriotic Huawei?” one Weibo user said about Leica

Re: China Bans the Word 'Leica' on Social Media

#23

Post by joe_the_user »

ronilan wrote: post #13
devoply wrote: post #3

Would it not be better for these idiots to simply apologize for Tienanmen Square and promise not to do it again? And also stop all their asshole human right violations?

If you suggesting China adopts a system in which every government systematically apologizes for what previous generations have done, while laying the foundations of the next apologetic generation; then they can’t do that. It’s copyrighted by the Government of Canada / Gouvernement du Canada.

[sarcasm] Oh I'm sure Canada and other Western nations are offering licenses for their model and indeed one might see this entire enterprise as a long effort to sell those licenses, while China just insists on relying on simpler methods.[/sarcasm]

That said, China's unwillingness to mention Tien Ah Min expresses the point that nation has to adopt a "no apologies, don't talk about this and we'd definitely do this again" position because the state ultimately deals in absolutes. This situation indeed implies a certain fragility.

Edit: Just for clarification, I certainly hope a framework of democracy and freedom of speech prevail but I am still clear quite a few Western interests have entirely selfish reasons for wanting this (and the Western model indeed has its flaws).

Re: China Bans the Word 'Leica' on Social Media

#24

Post by stcredzero »

chongli wrote: post #14
0815test wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The playbook of all dictatorships is the same: squeeze tighter and tighter until you can no longer hold on, then collapse. While a common-enough failure mode, this is by no means universal. Many successful monarchies began as the equivalent of dictatorships, and then opened up further and further over time.

The monarchies of old changed hands and flipped over due to war (civil and otherwise) so often that they're not really comparable to a modern state dictatorship. Tons of monarchs had extremely short reigns, far less stable than the Chinese Communist party.

In that case, is it really valid to count those monarchs as different governments and not continuations of the same system?

Re: China Bans the Word 'Leica' on Social Media

#25

Post by spectramax »

anbop wrote: post #17
benj111 wrote: post #15

So what's the official Chinese line on Tiananmen? Did it not happen? Was it a western plot? Student riots? Banning the word Leica seems to be implicitly admitting that it did happen, and that the Chinese government did something wrong, so I'm guessing the official story isn't the generally accepted story?

The official position is “don’t talk about that.”

That's exactly why the rest of the world needs to speak up.

Re: China Bans the Word 'Leica' on Social Media

#26

Post by devoply »

joe_the_user wrote: post #23
ronilan wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you suggesting China adopts a system in which every government systematically apologizes for what previous generations have done, while laying the foundations of the next apologetic generation; then they can’t do that. It’s copyrighted by the Government of Canada / Gouvernement du Canada.

[sarcasm] Oh I'm sure Canada and other Western nations are offering licenses for their model and indeed one might see this entire enterprise as a long effort to sell those licenses, while China just insists on relying on simpler methods.[/sarcasm] That said, China's unwillingness to mention Tien Ah Min expresses the point that nation has to adopt a "no apologies, don't talk about this and we'd definitely do this agai…

It's funny because China seems to have the mentality that this must be so. And look over to the Japanese and at one time they were similarly minded. And yet look at them now, a pleasure to deal with both on individual and societal level. So it's simply a choice and a mentality which will lead you into all sorts of bad situations. Unfortunately Chinese don't have enough experience with this and instead looking to history to guide their actions, which is a mistake. We simply can't act this way in the world we have built, the consequences are too grave for everyone involved.

Re: China Bans the Word 'Leica' on Social Media

#27

Post by 0815test »

mpnordland wrote: post #19

So my guess is that Huawei will now stop partnering with them for their phones? How does China deal with this type of thing?

It's not even "China" that's directly responsible for most of these decisions, really. It's each private company individually trying to figure out how to keep the Chinese government happy and on their side. That's why these things are inherently unpredictable. Sometimes you can even see seemingly-coordinated behavior that's actually the result of bandwagoning - e.g. if one company bans "Leica" on their social media site, then everyone else will feel like they have to follow suit. It's quite a mess.

Re: China Bans the Word 'Leica' on Social Media

#28

Post by rossenberg79 »

spectramax wrote: post #20

Powerful ad. My gut feeling is that there will be a day in the future where everything in China is going to boil-over just like any other totalitarian regimes in the past. It could be 20 years from now when Xi dies or some type of student uprising again, or could be from the HK/Taiwan situation. The behavior of the Chinese government and as they call it "the hand of Beijing" has a self-propelling streisand effect, th…

As westerners I feel this is natural to think, and makes sense to us, but having been in China several times I'm not so sure.

The value systems in Asia are far different, and people are much more collective where as we are a more individualist society with different thoughts about individual freedom.

I doubt China could have become as strong as it is today without it's long history of authoritarian regimes, and I feel that many in China believe this to be true. The growing dissent may not be a sign of what's to come but may simply be the growing pains of a totalitarian regime moving into the 21st century. I do not agree with Chinese government but I never underestimate it. There are some smart people working to keep over a billion people under control and productive, and I'm sure they will ultimately find a way that keeps them like that, and can be accepted by it's citizens.

Re: China Bans the Word 'Leica' on Social Media

#30

Post by chongli »

wutbrodo wrote: post #21
spectramax wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please provide examples.

Off the top of my head, Britain, Spain, Portugal, and Chile (and Canada and Australia, if you want to cheat). Do you really think that every liberal Western European democracy had their own version of the French Revolution, or that they've been democracies since time immemorial?

None of those places functioned as modern nation states prior to the Peace of Westphalia. Monarchies were in constant flux, collapsing all the time as brother invaded cousin and so on. How exactly does this refute my point?
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