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Vendors must start adding physical on/off switches to devices that can spy on us

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Re: Vendors must start adding physical on/off switches to devices that can spy on us

#171

Post by tinus_hn »

kiallmacinnes wrote: post #126
everdrive wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Android, you actually can't trust when the OS says the WiFi is "off." Yes, the network is not connected, but google is still tracking SSIDs.

To be fair, the WiFi connection is off, it's just the radio is not... It's not so much a lie, rather it's an implementation that covers the average persons expectations 100%, but keeps something they might not want , but weren't thinking about when they pressed that button. To be clear, I don't like the behaviour.. but it's not misleading, it just doesn't cater to everyones desires.

The excuse is that receiving is allowed in airplane mode, as long as you’re not transmitting.

Re: Vendors must start adding physical on/off switches to devices that can spy on us

#172

Post by lucb1e »

drivebycomment wrote: post #157
kiallmacinnes wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most phones use Assisted GPS. It's a combination of cell tower triangulation and GPS. You'll get a potentially inaccurate "GPS" location based on the cell towers and signals you can see, and this will eventually turn into a real GPS lock. As I understand it, this cell tower location actually helps achieve a real GPS location faster that would be normal - but I'm unsure how that would work .. I'd be guessing at best ;…

For non-assisted GPS, the GPS device needs to download orbital information from the satellite directly when first powered on - with only ~50 bits/s of bandwidth, it can take a while - minutes to tens of minutes. With Assisted GPS, the GPS device can download the satellite orbital information and almanac directly from AGPS server (e.g. cell phone tower), usually at much higher bandwidth - as those local, always-runnin…

The sats don't change orbit every few hours though, also without AGPS you usually can use the ephemerides from last time you used it.

This is fun to observe when you buy a new phone and don't connect network yet, it takes a good while to find any satellites and finally find a fix. Then after cycling GPS, it finds it almost instantly.

Re: Vendors must start adding physical on/off switches to devices that can spy on us

#173

Post by NikkiA »

Nasrudith wrote: post #168
HNKingpin wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should be able to see the effects, no? At least in cameras (the light won't be flashing).

Well the thing is they are absurdly fine electronics. It is trivial to reroute so that the switch applies to the LED and not the camera itself (and some other trickery based upon reading its state while keeping it covertly operational). Said lie could still be detected in other ways of course but it wouldn't be a simple and complete fix.

To be fair, if I wanted to build covert surveillance I could also trivially make the switch appear to turn off the camera to commercial camera software but not actually disconnect from my covert software that I provide to TPTB.

Re: Vendors must start adding physical on/off switches to devices that can spy on us

#174

Post by upofadown »

>Another “clever” solution is to use a software off switch, like this (for Windows). But it simply turns your webcam’s driver on and off.

The OpenBSD people have recently made microphone off the default at the kernel level. You need to have root access to turn it on again and you need to take an explicit action to have it come on at boot. That is actually sort of secure as people don't run as root in *nix environments when they are doing things that can get them cracked (i.e. run web browsers). Turning the microphone on should really be an admin level thing...

Perhaps what we want isn't a switch but a button. You can activate it but it is off by default. There really needs to be a obvious light as well...

Re: Vendors must start adding physical on/off switches to devices that can spy on us

#175

Post by svrtknst »

HNKingpin wrote: post #79
svrtknst wrote: post #75

While physical switches would be nice, and I generally am a fan of them, IMO they still require trust in the manufacturer. If I don't trust their software switches, why would I trust their hardware switches?

You should be able to see the effects, no? At least in cameras (the light won't be flashing).

Maybe - Unless the bypass circumvents that. NSA did exactly that on Samsung (Tizen) TVs a few years back.

One of their hacks, IIRC, was that they turned off the standby light so it would appear the TV was shut off.

Re: Vendors must start adding physical on/off switches to devices that can spy on us

#176

Post by lrem »

devoply wrote: post #154
jetrink wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Winston turned a switch and the voice sank somewhat, though the words were still distinguishable. The instrument (the telescreen, it was called) could be dimmed, but there was no way of shutting it off completely. [...] Any sound that Winston made, above the level of a very low whisper, would be picked up by it.” - George Orwell, 1984

Stupid sexy Chromecast. It's good there is no microphone in it like the Nest... or is there?

How were they finding the cast in the same room again?

Re: Vendors must start adding physical on/off switches to devices that can spy on us

#177

Post by josteink »

devoply wrote: post #154
jetrink wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Winston turned a switch and the voice sank somewhat, though the words were still distinguishable. The instrument (the telescreen, it was called) could be dimmed, but there was no way of shutting it off completely. [...] Any sound that Winston made, above the level of a very low whisper, would be picked up by it.” - George Orwell, 1984

Stupid sexy Chromecast. It's good there is no microphone in it like the Nest... or is there?

I think there is. For authenticating “near” devices via ultrasound.

Re: Vendors must start adding physical on/off switches to devices that can spy on us

#178

Post by lrem »

chmod775 wrote: post #164
maxheadroom wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Getting your password isn't as compromising as, say, getting a photo of you nude, in the security theatre-sense. Think of the OPM hack[0] and the potential for a foreign entity to compromise someone (that they know has a security clearance) with blackmail. This has a much larger and potentially far longer ROI than a simple compromise of a password; which probably has to be changed every 'x' days, anyways. You have to…

> Getting your password isn't as compromising as, say, getting a photo of you nude, in the security theatre-sense. That... really depends on the society you live in and your own insecurities. Fear and prohibition surrounding the naked body is a cultural/religious thing. The most prudish US-regions are probably somewhere in the middle of central Europe and Islamic countries like Saudi Arabia. I won't generalize to the…

You really pricked my interest here: where do you think central Europe is exactly, especially in comparison with western and eastern?

Re: Vendors must start adding physical on/off switches to devices that can spy on us

#179

Post by bonoboTP »

lrem wrote: post #178
chmod775 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Getting your password isn't as compromising as, say, getting a photo of you nude, in the security theatre-sense. That... really depends on the society you live in and your own insecurities. Fear and prohibition surrounding the naked body is a cultural/religious thing. The most prudish US-regions are probably somewhere in the middle of central Europe and Islamic countries like Saudi Arabia. I won't generalize to the…

You really pricked my interest here: where do you think central Europe is exactly, especially in comparison with western and eastern?

Wikipedia can help you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Europe

Mostly: formerly Holy Roman and Habsburg Empires.

Re: Vendors must start adding physical on/off switches to devices that can spy on us

#180

Post by pxndx »

lrem wrote: post #176
devoply wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stupid sexy Chromecast. It's good there is no microphone in it like the Nest... or is there?

How were they finding the cast in the same room again?

Doesn't it emit the tone through the TV while your phone listens?
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