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Is everything an MLM

annehelen.substack.com

21–30 of 297 posts

Re: Is everything an MLM

#21

I think all of the above is very specific to higher-education in the US. I'm a PhD resarch student in a UK university and that's really not what I see from where I stand. And keep in mind that universities here too are for-pay and the tuition fees can be very high and the UK society has very much embraced free-market capitalism. And UK universities these days will take on just anyone for a PhD (see: me). But, really-…

In the US I saw engineering labs using PhDs from abroad as almost slave labor. A bit hyperbolic perhaps, but the students were not allowed to progress without the advisor's say so, and the advisors would not allow them to top-author papers they were basically sole contributing. On top of that, between their own work and lab work, they were expected to put in 60 to 80 hours a week.

The point is, the power dynamics were out of whack.

Re: Is everything an MLM

#23

Life is a pyramid scheme. Rather than figure out a way to exist in a steady-state forever, our cells divide exponentially, accumulate genetic mutations until they can't take it anymore, and then rather than fix themselves, we just make new humans and let the old one die. Humanity in developed countries at least has the kindness not to make more humans than we believe have a reasonable chance of survival, but that res…

[deleted]

Re: Is everything an MLM

#24

Life is a pyramid scheme. Rather than figure out a way to exist in a steady-state forever, our cells divide exponentially, accumulate genetic mutations until they can't take it anymore, and then rather than fix themselves, we just make new humans and let the old one die. Humanity in developed countries at least has the kindness not to make more humans than we believe have a reasonable chance of survival, but that res…

A red pill down the matrix lane it is then. https://youtu.be/VMU-YjVGiGs

Re: Is everything an MLM

#25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's another big aspect to this: the orientation of the economy towards growth. When you start asking "What happens when the population and the economy are in a steady state, where we don't expect things to increase at 2% forever", and the answers are pretty grim. Retirement systems, for example, need a certain ratio of productive workers for each retiree, and I can't figure out any math that makes sense for the n…

1 thing I never understood is this obsession towards jobs growth. Every month, when this number is released, everyone wants this number to be better than the last month. Yet if everyone who wants a job eventually gets one, this number will eventually go to zero. And if it goes to zero, that would be a good thing. Yet everyone panics if the number of jobs created that month goes down. People are freaking crazy.

US population is growing. So the steady state employment rate requires ~190,000 net jobs to be added every month. If the number is below that the a lower percentage of population is employed this month than last month.

Re: Is everything an MLM

#26
post #21

I think all of the above is very specific to higher-education in the US. I'm a PhD resarch student in a UK university and that's really not what I see from where I stand. And keep in mind that universities here too are for-pay and the tuition fees can be very high and the UK society has very much embraced free-market capitalism. And UK universities these days will take on just anyone for a PhD (see: me). But, really-…

In the US I saw engineering labs using PhDs from abroad as almost slave labor. A bit hyperbolic perhaps, but the students were not allowed to progress without the advisor's say so, and the advisors would not allow them to top-author papers they were basically sole contributing. On top of that, between their own work and lab work, they were expected to put in 60 to 80 hours a week. The point is, the power dynamics wer…

This hits close to home.

Re: Is everything an MLM

#27
post #7

It is an effective strategy, my observation is that way more energy is expended in debating the term MLM by assuming it is a pejorative term and the potential legal ramifications Without a government stance on any particular viral campaign I typically try to avoid MLMs as I find them unattractive With government stance and intervention I notice that the only result is for people to understand exactly how to operate a…

From my internet researching a while ago the main difference, and why MLMs are legal, is that an MLM sells a product, whereas a pyramid scheme sells people. That is, you can make money solely by acquiring more people who pay to be apart of it, in a pyramid scheme.

I'm still not sure how I feel about MLMs. If it's actually a good product maybe it's not a bad thing, but when it is not, that's where it seems to get sketchy.

Re: Is everything an MLM

#28
post #19

Any decent grad department will give the grad students a tuition waiver and stipend so it's actually the opposite of a pyramid scheme. In a pyramid scheme, you pay to join the pyramid. In academia, the pyramid pays you. I spent two years in a grad department in Boston that paid me to hang out and read books and occasionally grade papers. It probably wasn't the best life decision but there wasn't any exploitation.

Especially for EE anc CS programs. I came from a 3rd world country and a full time job there is still worse than a 1500/month grad student pay that has opportunity for 6 digit at graduation. Just like anything in life, you have to research before jumping in.

Re: Is everything an MLM

#29
post #21

I think all of the above is very specific to higher-education in the US. I'm a PhD resarch student in a UK university and that's really not what I see from where I stand. And keep in mind that universities here too are for-pay and the tuition fees can be very high and the UK society has very much embraced free-market capitalism. And UK universities these days will take on just anyone for a PhD (see: me). But, really-…

In the US I saw engineering labs using PhDs from abroad as almost slave labor. A bit hyperbolic perhaps, but the students were not allowed to progress without the advisor's say so, and the advisors would not allow them to top-author papers they were basically sole contributing. On top of that, between their own work and lab work, they were expected to put in 60 to 80 hours a week. The point is, the power dynamics wer…

If you can churn out 1 paper every 3 months doing 8-5 that’s fine. The truth is that the incentive model is based on papers you published (to be subsequently used in NSF proposals). Hence, for most people that means working their ass off to churn out papers at a decent rate. I guess you could say something else is broken — like the way conferences have super low acceptance rates?

Re: Is everything an MLM

#30

I think all of the above is very specific to higher-education in the US. I'm a PhD resarch student in a UK university and that's really not what I see from where I stand. And keep in mind that universities here too are for-pay and the tuition fees can be very high and the UK society has very much embraced free-market capitalism. And UK universities these days will take on just anyone for a PhD (see: me). But, really-…

My understanding of arts and humanities PhDs is that they are largely self-funded, much fewer in number, and mostly vocational for the truly dedicated.

I think you might have a different perspective if you were to do a science PhD. It's exactly what is described. It can feel like you are low-wage labour. You are low-wage labour. From the academic group leads' point of view, your labour is "free" because you come into their lab with funding from a national funding body or charitable organisation (e.g. BBSRC, EPSRC, MRC, Wellcome Trust, Leverhulme Trust, Cancer Research UK etc.) and so you don't cost them a penny of their grant money other than in lab material costs, and you even get an allowance for that in your funding. Actual employed staff (Research Assistants, Research Technicians, Postdoctoral Researchers) cost them a full time salary on their grant applications.

There's a very wide pyramid structure, with PhD students being the base, topped by a much smaller number of Postdoctoral researchers, with a very small number of career academics on top. This imbalance is bad for several reasons. Firstly, the prospects for an academic career are dire. Most people leave after their PhD. Most of those that remain leave after one or two Postdocs. Those that remain attempt to climb the academic career ladder, but most of them will also fall off it, due to funding issues, lack of research success or the sheer stress and uncertainty of it all. Secondly, the glut of poorly-paid PhDs has eliminated entire categories of career positions. Research Technicians and Research Associates used to be good positions in organisations with long-term prospects. They are now almost nonexistent, and these people used to have huge amounts of knowledge which is now lost whenever the current PhD or Postdoc moves on. Postdoc positions are also a position which should not exist; it was a transition between training (PhD) and an academic position. It's now a decade-long limbo with poor prospects for most. In previous decades, existing academics could go straight into a fellowship.

If you spend four years of your early career doing a PhD, that's four years you get paid a minimal wage, work insane hours, for precious little to show. The chances of success are strongly weighted against you. That's four years you could be getting paid a proper salary, getting useful experience and being promoted, getting and paying off a mortgage, into a pension, starting a family etc. I went into one without considering all that. In hindsight, I enjoyed the research work and the environment for the most part, but it was strategically and financially a net negative, and I would struggle to recommend it to anyone. The numbers simply do not add up, and having a PhD doesn't give you better job prospects except for a few very niche roles. Experience, however, does open many more doors.

There are far, far too many PhD students. They could halve or quarter the number and make up the shortfall with permanent staff positions. Same for Postdocs. They could also use the saved funding to be able to fund grant applications without rejecting those which pay for qualified staff rather than unpaid students. That's a vicious circle which leads to systemic underestimation of the true cost of research work. The whole system is fundamentally not fit for purpose. There are too many people applying for limited amounts of funding, and this is the result of a race to the bottom since it's essentially cost-saving on salaries by employing cheap inexperienced labour through selling them a pipe dream.

Am I slightly embittered by the experience? Maybe a little. I now work in embedded programming for medical imaging and medical diagnostics. So the experience I gained did help a little. But it wasn't essential. I could have got there quite easily without it.

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