Live data from Hacker News

Vendors must start adding physical on/off switches to devices that can spy on us

larrysanger.org

91–100 of 200 posts

Re: Vendors must start adding physical on/off switches to devices that can spy on us

#91
post #4

Note that a physical switch can be overridden just as easy as a soft switch, the vendor can just put a soft switch in parallel with it and you would never know it. The hard switch could turn off the display, speaker etc. while the processor and radio can stay on.

the printer/scanner/copier at my workplace needs about 30 seconds when you press the physical switch to actually switch off, it's more of a command than an actual switch

So does your desktop computer, laptop, and phone?

Re: Vendors must start adding physical on/off switches to devices that can spy on us

#92
How do we enforce this? We want the federal government to start investigating factories & banning imports of electronic devices with X sensor and Y connectivity capabilities? Do we sue Best Buy unless it changes all its suppliers immediately? The precedents set by categorizing and condemning could create more harm than good.

Like so many other privacy articles I read, this one has its heart in the right place, but it treats reality and implementation as an afterthought.

Re: Vendors must start adding physical on/off switches to devices that can spy on us

#93
post #41

This doesn't even mention location data from phones which is so persistently on and hard to disable, yet any usage of maps requires it. I want it off after that...

Even with data off, wifi off and gps off mobile phones interact with towers and carriers are often required to keep logs of your location for a while in case they are required https://ssd.eff.org/en/module/problem-mobile-phones#1

Re: Vendors must start adding physical on/off switches to devices that can spy on us

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the way the lens works on the new Lenovo Thinkpad camera. It slides sideways, thereby blocking the camera. That's how I like to see it done

That was my first thought when seeing Sanger's initial tweets about this. Someone else replied to the tweet pointing it out, and his response was along the lines of "that's not an off switch, it just blocks it". I'm not really sure why blocking the camera isn't strictly _better_ than a physical off switch, at the very least from a trust perspective

Depending on what the cover is made of, it may not be opaque to infrared, which some cameras support.

Also, microphones.

Re: Vendors must start adding physical on/off switches to devices that can spy on us

#95
post #69

It's interesting that no laptop vendor seems to have made a physical webcam cover included by default- to me that seems like a no brainer that most customers would benefit from. Edit: Thanks for all your comments. It seems that there a few vendors that do offer webcan covers by default now. Definitely will have to check those out.

My Thinkpad T480s definitely has one. Just needs a switch to also block the microphone

My Lenovo P1 has a fn button to disable the mic and a light showing if it's enabled or not. Not as good as a switch, but makes me confident some random application isn't listening at least.

Re: Vendors must start adding physical on/off switches to devices that can spy on us

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is absolutely untrue. "Organic" is a regulated term by the USDA, requiring verification from an accredited certifying agency.

USDA organic allows non organic pesticides and herbicides. It's a joke of a standard.

Really? Growing up on a farm, and having friends/acquaintances who were either organic or interested in going organic, I don't recall that pesticides and herbicides were allowed. The so-called "organic pesticides" and "organic herbicides" I've seen are mostly just all natural snake oil...

Re: Vendors must start adding physical on/off switches to devices that can spy on us

#97

Janie Crane: “An off switch?” Metrocop: “She'll get years for that. Off switches are illegal!” —Max Headroom, season 1, episode 6, “The Blanks” https://www.maxheadroom.com/index.php?title=Episode_ABC.1.6:...

Max Headroom was an extremely subversive program and I continue to be amazed it was actually greenlit, produced and broadcast on mainstream television - in the United States for primetime broadcast, even!

It was canceled rather abruptly – the last recorded episode was never aired, and there was still one whole fully scripted episode which was never produced.

Re: Vendors must start adding physical on/off switches to devices that can spy on us

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought lying about such functionality to consumers would be illegal. I feel that if you sell me a device with the explicit promise that “off means off”, then bypassing that would be.. false advertising? Is that true? Assuming they’d market it that way, originally?

Most people aren't capable of using a webcam correctly before the addition of a mechanical switch that adds a 50% chance they'll deactivate it and think it's broken. A physical hand-operated integrated cover that slides in front of the camera is a great option for software engineers and HN-level thinkers, but it will only cause grief for the majority of users. Having hidden redundancy would allow Apple's tech support…

I think people have been sufficiently trained in using off buttons that if you give it the right affordances (visibility, an On/Off label, an LED to show it's on), they'll be able to use it without too much friction.

After all, they had to turn on the computer first.

Re: Vendors must start adding physical on/off switches to devices that can spy on us

#100
post #69

It's interesting that no laptop vendor seems to have made a physical webcam cover included by default- to me that seems like a no brainer that most customers would benefit from. Edit: Thanks for all your comments. It seems that there a few vendors that do offer webcan covers by default now. Definitely will have to check those out.

I saw a laptop recently (within the year, I think) that had the camera situated under one of the buttons IIRC, so that it was naturally covered when not in use

Huawei Matebook X (dubbed the 'chin cam')
Post reply on HN