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Helium shortages will impact quantum computer research

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Re: Helium shortages will impact quantum computer research

#11

Post by astrodust »

AWildC182 wrote: post #8
NikkiA wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Partly because you can't store helium long term, it escapes from any known container. There are probably individuals that have tried to store large amounts, but are going to have a sad feeling when they try to let the helium out from their million dollar bunch of tanks.

Source? I can't find anything on long term helium storage being impossible.

It's the smallest monatomic gas, so it can wriggle through even the tiniest of holes.

Normally you'd liquify a gas to store it, but helium doesn't liquify until you crank it down to 4°K, which is really, really cold. Liquid oxygen and nitrogen have significantly higher boiling points.

Now if you do liquify it, the real fun is it's a superfluid so it's going to crawl all over the inside of the container, it won't just stay at the bottom.

So if you don't keep it at 4°K, or -270°C, it's going to boil, and if it boils it's a gas, and if it's a gas it's going to find any opening to squeeze out of.

Re: Helium shortages will impact quantum computer research

#12

Post by askvictor »

MRD85 wrote: post #9
NikkiA wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Partly because you can't store helium long term, it escapes from any known container. There are probably individuals that have tried to store large amounts, but are going to have a sad feeling when they try to let the helium out from their million dollar bunch of tanks.

You could surely store it in a closed container though? Buy a bunch of tanks, weld them closed. Even try putting a thin coat of something over the sealed tank so that it's more leak resistant.

That's harder than it sounds; helium (like hydrogen) has a tendency to leak through anything you put it in due to its tiny molecule size.

Re: Helium shortages will impact quantum computer research

#13

Post by jeffwass »

astrodust wrote: post #11
AWildC182 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Source? I can't find anything on long term helium storage being impossible.

It's the smallest monatomic gas, so it can wriggle through even the tiniest of holes. Normally you'd liquify a gas to store it, but helium doesn't liquify until you crank it down to 4°K, which is really, really cold. Liquid oxygen and nitrogen have significantly higher boiling points. Now if you do liquify it, the real fun is it's a superfluid so it's going to crawl all over the inside of the container, it won't just…

>Now if you do liquify it, the real fun is it's a superfluid so it's going to crawl all over the inside of the container, it won't just stay at the bottom.

Not true. LHe’s boiling point (at atmospheric pressure) is 4.2K. The lambda point when it becomes a superfluid is 2.2K. So there’s a decent temperature range when it behaves as a normal liquid.

Re: Helium shortages will impact quantum computer research

#14

Post by imtringued »

AWildC182 wrote: post #8
NikkiA wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Partly because you can't store helium long term, it escapes from any known container. There are probably individuals that have tried to store large amounts, but are going to have a sad feeling when they try to let the helium out from their million dollar bunch of tanks.

Source? I can't find anything on long term helium storage being impossible.

It's not impossible. You just need a tank with thicker walls.

Re: Helium shortages will impact quantum computer research

#16

Post by marmaduke »

jeffwass wrote: post #13
astrodust wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the smallest monatomic gas, so it can wriggle through even the tiniest of holes. Normally you'd liquify a gas to store it, but helium doesn't liquify until you crank it down to 4°K, which is really, really cold. Liquid oxygen and nitrogen have significantly higher boiling points. Now if you do liquify it, the real fun is it's a superfluid so it's going to crawl all over the inside of the container, it won't just…

>Now if you do liquify it, the real fun is it's a superfluid so it's going to crawl all over the inside of the container, it won't just stay at the bottom. Not true. LHe’s boiling point (at atmospheric pressure) is 4.2K. The lambda point when it becomes a superfluid is 2.2K. So there’s a decent temperature range when it behaves as a normal liquid.

Good clarification. I’ve regularly seen helium refills of an MEG scanner and apart from being cold it didn’t look particularly troublesome.

Re: Helium shortages will impact quantum computer research

#17

Post by im3w1l »

NikkiA wrote: post #3
b_tterc_p wrote: post #2

Maybe this is a dumb question but if people believe helium is valuable, and we put helium into useless balloons, why aren’t people buying up large quantities of helium and saving it for inevitable price increases?

Partly because you can't store helium long term, it escapes from any known container. There are probably individuals that have tried to store large amounts, but are going to have a sad feeling when they try to let the helium out from their million dollar bunch of tanks.

So if we can't store it, then we can't waste it either? So how are we having a shortage?

Re: Helium shortages will impact quantum computer research

#18

Post by pacificmint »

namirez wrote: post #10
jonbaer wrote: post #7

Should probably be noted, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helium-3 , "The abundance of helium-3 is thought to be greater on the Moon than on Earth" and https://io9.gizmodo.com/could-helium-3-really-solve-earths-e...

This might be useful only for future fusion reactors. It's too expensive for cooling purposes though.

The article discusses several current uses for He3 and cites a yearly demand of 70,000 liters.

Re: Helium shortages will impact quantum computer research

#20

Post by RandallBrown »

im3w1l wrote: post #17
NikkiA wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Partly because you can't store helium long term, it escapes from any known container. There are probably individuals that have tried to store large amounts, but are going to have a sad feeling when they try to let the helium out from their million dollar bunch of tanks.

So if we can't store it, then we can't waste it either? So how are we having a shortage?

As far as I know, it's not a shortage of helium, it's a shortage of cheap helium.

Back when blimps were a thing, the US stored a shitload of helium in a big cave. In around 2007, the US government was like "We don't need all this helium" and started selling off the reserve at super low prices.

Helium is often just vented to the atmosphere when mining natural gas, so we could capture it if we wanted, but right now it's not really worth it since we still have some cheap helium sitting around.

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