US economy is at an amazing position currently. Even though it has a smaller share of the global economy than 1960s (40% then vs 22% now), the 60s was an anomaly as most of Europe and Asia's economies were decimated from the war - the jump in worldwide prosperity is a lot better for the human species. US economy is the biggest in the world, twice as big as the next country, and 5 times bigger than Japan, and 6 times bigger than Germany. It has survived stagflation and oil crisis in the 70s, and globalization in the 80s and 90s. The US economy is much diversified - from tech in Silicon Valley, entertainment in Hollywood, oil and gas in Texas, tourism in Florida, finance and fashion in NY, agriculture, manufacturing, services, etc - and safer from systemic shocks from a loss of one particular industry. Capital is freely flowing into US - and away from emerging countries. US growth is in the 3%, while Japan/Germany is close to recession, and China is experiencing its own great depression.
US Wages Finally Get Back to Where They Were in 1973
51–60 of 93 posts
Re: US Wages Finally Get Back to Where They Were in 1973
#52Now that I’m a bit older (29) it’s fascinating to reflect back on my childhood and teenage years in the context of economic trends. I’ve been interviewing my grandpa to make a biography of his life and it’s mind-blowing to hear about how different the 50s were. A teacher (grandpa) and a part-time worker (grandma) supporting 2 babies and a senior (great grandma), yet still able to buy a home in Millbrae and a plot of…
A teacher (grandpa) and a part-time worker (grandma) supporting 2 babies and a senior (great grandma), yet still able to buy a home in Millbrae and a plot of land in Tahoe (which my family still has to this day)
I can guarantee you right now, you could buy a home and a plot of land that will be out of reach for most people 40 years from now.
The question is - where will that be? Your grandparents probably had no idea Millbrae and Lake Tahoe would be as popular as they are today.
Hell, in the 1970's, people were leaving SF in droves as people wanted to get out of big cities.
Re: US Wages Finally Get Back to Where They Were in 1973
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
Great. Now let's do college.
Thank you for proving my point that life is very different today than it was in 1973, and that comparing wages across decades is dumb
Yeah but the comments you are replying to don't talk about wages. They only offer counterpoints that disprove your original assertion: prices didn't go down in every sector.
Re: US Wages Finally Get Back to Where They Were in 1973
#54Now that I’m a bit older (29) it’s fascinating to reflect back on my childhood and teenage years in the context of economic trends. I’ve been interviewing my grandpa to make a biography of his life and it’s mind-blowing to hear about how different the 50s were. A teacher (grandpa) and a part-time worker (grandma) supporting 2 babies and a senior (great grandma), yet still able to buy a home in Millbrae and a plot of…
The article is misleading in an important respect. While real wages haven't budged much (they certainly haven't declined), benefits, which are tax-advantaged relative to wages, have increased quite a bit. For example, while wages rose 3% since 2000, benefits rose 22%: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us... . The changes you're talking about regarding quality of life more have to do with incre…
This is key. Total compensation is way up compared to 1973. It's just real average wages that haven't budged much.
Re: US Wages Finally Get Back to Where They Were in 1973
#55Now that I’m a bit older (29) it’s fascinating to reflect back on my childhood and teenage years in the context of economic trends. I’ve been interviewing my grandpa to make a biography of his life and it’s mind-blowing to hear about how different the 50s were. A teacher (grandpa) and a part-time worker (grandma) supporting 2 babies and a senior (great grandma), yet still able to buy a home in Millbrae and a plot of…
The article is misleading in an important respect. While real wages haven't budged much (they certainly haven't declined), benefits, which are tax-advantaged relative to wages, have increased quite a bit. For example, while wages rose 3% since 2000, benefits rose 22%: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us... . The changes you're talking about regarding quality of life more have to do with incre…
Ummmm no. Healthcare costs have gone up dramatically, completely negating the increase in benefits coverage: https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/u-s-spe...
If anything, including benefits, you have less than you did at the start of the millennium.
Though reading the article you linked, I'd be pretty surprised if insurance costs in the USA are not suppressing wages.
In other words, the health care industry in the USA is doubly stealing from those in it. It's flat out affordable, and may be why you didn't get a raise...
Re: US Wages Finally Get Back to Where They Were in 1973
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
My grandpa became a multi-millionaire even though he dropped out of middle school. Born into a working class German family where no one really valued education. Good luck doing that now. Grammar edit, guess we still don't value education.
I don't think I understand your point. The majority of multi-millionaires aren't that way because they got a good education and worked a standard job. Most are because they made good investments, started a company, or were born into money. Dropping out of middle school is pretty unrelated to this if you're a smart, enterprising person.
Don't forget luck!
Re: US Wages Finally Get Back to Where They Were in 1973
#57Now that I’m a bit older (29) it’s fascinating to reflect back on my childhood and teenage years in the context of economic trends. I’ve been interviewing my grandpa to make a biography of his life and it’s mind-blowing to hear about how different the 50s were. A teacher (grandpa) and a part-time worker (grandma) supporting 2 babies and a senior (great grandma), yet still able to buy a home in Millbrae and a plot of…
A teacher (grandpa) and a part-time worker (grandma) supporting 2 babies and a senior (great grandma), yet still able to buy a home in Millbrae and a plot of land in Tahoe (which my family still has to this day) I can guarantee you right now, you could buy a home and a plot of land that will be out of reach for most people 40 years from now. The question is - where will that be? Your grandparents probably had no idea…
> Hell, in the 1970's, people were leaving SF in droves as people wanted to get out of big cities.
Yeah but they were moving to the peninsula and the south bay, e.g. Millbrae, San Mateo, and San Jose. That's what my family did in the post-WWII period along with many others.
Re: US Wages Finally Get Back to Where They Were in 1973
#58Inflation adjustment is weird across time and geographies. I'm not saying the article is wrong, but just something to keep in mind. In 1973 the internet was nascent, we didn't have smartphones, insulin was still hard to produce, and so on. Even making the same amount "inflation adjusted" as 1973, our lives are much richer in part to all these advances.
As an example - it's likely in adjusted terms someone in the top 1% a 100 years ago would be close to the top percentiles today, and yet it's pretty easy to argue that the average person today is still doing much better in almost any measure than a 1%-er from a century ago.
Re: US Wages Finally Get Back to Where They Were in 1973
#59Phew. It only took pumping some trillions into the pockets(assets) of multimillionaires to finally trickle down to 1973 levels.
Yes, but if you look at the chart, most of the loss occurred in the decade of the 70s, before any talk of trickle down economics. From the end of the 82 recession until the mid nineties the erosion continues, but at a much slower pace, closer to being static until the trend starts a long slow ascent, close to 25 years to recover what was mostly lost in 10.
What does that trend line look for top 1%?
Re: US Wages Finally Get Back to Where They Were in 1973
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
Considering that the homeless person likely does not have food security or a place to live, which I would consider to be significantly more important than being able to tell the time, I would have to disagree with your claim that the homeless person is “better off”.
He’s homeless because he’s probably a drug addict or mentally ill, in which case he wouldn’t have lasted very long as Charlemagne
Plenty of folks in power are drug addicts or mentally ill. The bigger difference between the well-to-do and the homeless person is that the person with money can get drug addiction treatment from a nice place instead of going to forced AA or NA classes the shelter offers. (forced if they want shelter at times). They can also afford proper medications and caretakers.
I'd also like to note that there are lots of folks that are homeless simply because they cannot afford housing. I've not had that fate, but I did live some time without proper heat nor hot water because I couldn't afford the natural gas deposit. Lots of other folks are living with friends or relatives.