Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake • Hacker News Board

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#251

Post by alexis_fr » Fri, Apr 19, 2019, 2:09 PM UTC

rootlocus wrote: post #242

mrybczyn wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Magplug charging is magical! Easily the best contribution to computer design from Apple, ever. And then it gets dropped... I wonder if the poor hardware has to do with increasingly outsourced R&D. I mean, everyone at Apple is rich, why should they bother with all the hard details ...

I don't have any sources for this, but I always assumed they dropped the magplug because it was too thick and they wanted to use usb-c exclusively.

> too thick

Exactly. And my life improved so much since I reduced the backpack carrying my laptop by 1mm...

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#252

Post by jordanbeiber » Fri, Apr 19, 2019, 2:10 PM UTC

School-Cotton wrote: post #231

jordanbeiber wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience: it’s ”unix” on a laptop that just works. Easy access to up-to-date tooling through brew: zsh, docker, bash, vim et al. Now don’t get me wrong, I’ve been a Linux only user since the 90’s and for many years used the dell xps developer edition. But, the mac touchpad (I know, I’m doing it wrong) and screen coupled with superior battery time as well as solid sleep/wakeup makes for a great experience. The…

What is "unixy" about brew or docker?

Well, it’s a different paragraph and sentence isn’t it? :)

Whether the tools are “unixy” is of course an interesting discussion. :p

I guess my line of thought was: kind of “unix” -> kind of “posix” -> kind of compatible with a lot of your familiar tooling.

All this equals pretty good platform for many nerds.

I could have made myself more clear.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#253

Post by schappim » Fri, Apr 19, 2019, 2:11 PM UTC

There is a petition to get Apple to recall the keyboards. Previous discussion here:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16997476

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#254

Post by KyM78YDM » Fri, Apr 19, 2019, 2:11 PM UTC

alehul wrote: post #108

coldtea wrote: post #78

15+ years as an Apple user, this is my biggest pet peeve. The other two being: - the touch strip, which I find mostly annoying. I'd prefer physical buttons with the ability to show different labels (a la Optimus keyboard). - whichever idiot thought putting the power plug at the bottom of the Magic Mouse was a good idea.

> whichever idiot thought putting the power plug at the bottom of the Magic Mouse was a good idea. For those not familiar with the Apple Mouse, the commenter means that the power plug is on the part that you’re supposed to have on the mousepad, meaning you can’t charge it while using it, at all. Easily the worst way to design a mouse, ever. I don’t understand how it was approved.

I use the Apple Mouse on a daily basis. This criticism is blown way out of proportion.

I agree that it's a very ridiculous placement, but do you have a better idea where it should be placed? IMO, this is the best option given the constraints.

The usual ridicule is that you can't use it when it's charging. To me, it's a non-issue at all:

- When the battery drops to a low level (4% I think?), you will see a notification on your device reminding you that the charge is low. So have never been caught in a situation where I needed to charge the mouse while using it. - The battery lasts a long time. Apple claims that it lasts 2 months per full charge. Based on anecdotal evidence from myself and a friend, it lasts 3 months per full charge. So this 2 months claim isn't based on some super unrealistic assumption that Apple makes. So why is this important? Because at 4% when you receive the warning notification, the mouse can still run for another 2 days! (Assuming constant usage everyday and one full charge lasts 60 days, then 4% = 60 / 100 * 4 = 2.4.) - Finally, it charges super fast, too. A couple of minutes of charges can run a full day. So if you come to the office to find your mouse out of charge (because you forgot to charge it for the past 2 days despite the notifications), then plug it in before you get your coffee and you're good to go.

My point is that, yes, the charging port placement is ridiculous, but 1) I don't think there are better options and 2) it's really not that big of a deal because it is extremely unlikely that you'd need to charge while you're using it.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#255

Post by mcguire » Fri, Apr 19, 2019, 2:13 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #215

H1Supreme wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> tune and configure it to work You really don't have to do that. For example: I put Ubuntu Mate on a 2009 Macbook that could not run MacOs anymore (too slow). I had to install a wifi driver, and that was it. Everything else worked out of the box. My current Dell Inspiron 7000 laptop is running the same OS, and needed 0 drivers installed. I put Antergos on an Intel Nuc (that I later switched to Ubuntu Server). Again,…

If you don’t have to tune Linux to get it to work, then why does every single complaint about Linux’s battery life in laptops get met with “install TLP?” Of course Windows is shit in this respect too these days. I got two extra hours of battery life from my X1 Carbon by wiping the disk and installing Windows LTSB. But even then I still have to police things, watching for driver updates or software installs that rando…

The only thing I have had to configure on the last two laptops I've installed is, weirdly, to go to sleep when I close the lid.

The battery life on the X1 Carbon is about one and a half to two hours, which i think is acceptable given that the battery is reporting less than half of its original capacity.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#256

Post by gilbetron » Fri, Apr 19, 2019, 2:13 PM UTC

usaphp wrote: post #246

muraiki wrote: post #160

I had slowly been moving into the Apple ecosystem, buying an iPad, iPhone, and even a HomePod and Apple Music. I was largely motivated by a respect for Apple's stance on privacy. Then it came time for me to buy a laptop and I encountered these numerous reports of Apple screwing up one of the most basic parts of the computer. I couldn't justify spending so much on a laptop plus AppleCare, which would only result in ge…

> I couldn't justify spending so much on a laptop Apple MacBooks lately are being priced on par with the competition. You want premium screen and trackpad - you will have to pay just as much for a windows laptop.

Just bought a Dell Precision, and out of curiosity, went through and specced one out to match an equivalent Macbook. The macbook was solidly 30%+ higher in price. They were pretty close about 3-4 years ago, but now they have gotten terrible. And that doesn't even consider the Dell has a better keyboard (and for me, a better trackpad).

I used Macs for almost a decade, but I'm crazy happy with my Dell running Ubuntu 18.04. Amazing!

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#257

Post by School-Cotton » Fri, Apr 19, 2019, 2:16 PM UTC

bnolsen wrote: post #248

robertAngst wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>buy Apple device and be sure that everything there is pretty good. The alternative is that you spend 30 minutes of research and get a superior product cheaper. This isnt an opinion, this is reality. You can find a computer with better specs than Apple, cheaper. I'm not sympathetic to the 'mom' who doesn't know what RAM is, they get penalized by Apple for being an uninformed consumer. Is there any reason for a 'Nerd'…

The apple hardware: crap keyboard, any slight usage leads to blaring fans and immediate thermal throttling. Options mean end users could actually pick something that fits their needs and not have to live with what Apple thinks YOU need. There have been times when choices haven't been good on the non apple side but in recent years the apple's few top down dictated choices on the hardware side have led to clearly infer…

My non-negotiable requirements for a laptop are as follows. If there were a non-Apple model that fit these criteria, I would consider switching. Do you know of any?

(1) Unibody metal construction

(2) Extremely high-quality and high-resolution screen

(3) All-SSD storage

(4) High-quality trackpad with multi-touch gesture support (all gestures must work perfectly 100% of the time, and the acceleration/deceleration should feel physically natural)

(5) Unix-like operating system pre-installed out of the box (no having to set it up myself) and fully supported. (Doesn’t have to be macOS. Ubuntu or FreeBSD would be fine).

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#258

Post by alehul » Fri, Apr 19, 2019, 2:17 PM UTC

KyM78YDM wrote: post #254

alehul wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> whichever idiot thought putting the power plug at the bottom of the Magic Mouse was a good idea. For those not familiar with the Apple Mouse, the commenter means that the power plug is on the part that you’re supposed to have on the mousepad, meaning you can’t charge it while using it, at all. Easily the worst way to design a mouse, ever. I don’t understand how it was approved.

I use the Apple Mouse on a daily basis. This criticism is blown way out of proportion. I agree that it's a very ridiculous placement, but do you have a better idea where it should be placed? IMO, this is the best option given the constraints. The usual ridicule is that you can't use it when it's charging. To me, it's a non-issue at all: - When the battery drops to a low level (4% I think?), you will see a notificatio…

> but do you have a better idea where it should be placed?

How about having a small notch at the front of the mouse, like every other mouse I've used? It can then be simultaneously wired, and usable. Maybe you're right that it's usually not frustrating, but I was trying to use this mouse at my office once and it wasn't charged, and it seemed pointless to wait before using it.

> then plug it in before you get your coffee and you're good to go

What if I don't want to test my mouse before coffee? What if I have urgent emails to answer?

I understand that it isn't a world-breaking choice, but I don't understand why they would choose to change this. I love Apple, but this seems like one of those situations where a company changes something just to change it, claiming it's new and innovative, but actually reduces usability.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#259

Post by artimaeis » Fri, Apr 19, 2019, 2:18 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #196

bluesquared wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right! This is one of my biggest peeves with anti-Apple complainers...there are a few legitimate complaints with some of Apple's current designs but this isn't one! Apple Pencil 2 wireless charging nonwithstanding, this is the better design. Plugging in to your iPad is much better than having to dig out a cable, plug it into the Pencil, plug the other end somewhere else. Just think when your Pencil dies, which is mor…

> Just think when your Pencil dies, which is more convenient? Just think, when your Pencil plug end snaps, because it was protruding from the end of the iPad and you've dropped it, or hit something, or made a sudden move, etc, how convenient would that be? It's a bad design, end of story.

Do you feel like the design of the 2nd generation Pencil for the 3rd generation iPad is _better_?

Personally I don't like moving from Lightning to a more-proprietary non-standard magnetic interface. I think the first generation Pencil has a much better design in this regard, since now we have it working with the standard iPad and iPad Air.

But, I think the design of the first generation Pencil is pretty good, so I'm curious of your thoughts since you find it to be a bad design.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#260

Post by gingericha » Fri, Apr 19, 2019, 2:20 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #78

15+ years as an Apple user, this is my biggest pet peeve. The other two being: - the touch strip, which I find mostly annoying. I'd prefer physical buttons with the ability to show different labels (a la Optimus keyboard). - whichever idiot thought putting the power plug at the bottom of the Magic Mouse was a good idea.

I just wish the touch strip had haptic feedback. I don't mind it, but often times I'll find that I've accidentally rested my finger on the escape key and can't figure out why applications/menus aren't working properly.