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Austrian government seeks to eliminate internet anonymity, with severe penalties

derstandard.at

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Re: Austrian government seeks to eliminate internet anonymity, with severe penalties

#81

Post by redshiftingstar »

arrrg wrote: post #19
free101 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Traditional parties center/left center/right in Europe have run their respective countries into the ground. Now they think that censoring information will save them so they can get back to the cozy system where state television is the source of truth. Also, of course it is always good for a politician to show some sort of activity, no matter how silly.

Describing the current government in Austria as center-right is a bit ridiculous (to say nothing of putting words like centrist or left anywhere near descriptions of that government). Austrian politics have been moving further and further to the right and the FPÖ (junior coalition partner) is a xenophobic far-right party with authoritarian streaks. I’m really not comfortable in describing a government where such a pa…

Not surprised by the political shift, I have lived there for few years and felt really discriminated. Few people actually stopped talking to me after they learn where I'm from(Turkey). It's bit out of context but I will heavily advise against moving there for non-European immigrants, don't make the same mistake that I did.

Re: Austrian government seeks to eliminate internet anonymity, with severe penalties

#82

Post by sfifs »

rmu09 wrote: post #64
citeguised wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Austria and Germany you can't get any SIM without ID as of now.

So if you are a criminal that needs disposable SIM cards you just pay some cash-strapped person to get a bunch of prepaid ones for you.

The point is you have a path to trace if needed. Say some criminal has done that, they've established some kind of contact with the "cash strapped person" to do so - either electronically or in person. Electronic traces are pretty feasible for major nation states to uncover since they're ingesting packet traffic metadata from the whole internet traffic of countries. In-person traces can often be covered by surveillance camera records etc etc. Once there is a point of entry, there is usually a path for entities with governmental powers to investigate.

Re: Austrian government seeks to eliminate internet anonymity, with severe penalties

#83

Post by lazyjones »

tasubotadas wrote: post #76
lazyjones wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So tell me how this will work. Will you swap SIM cards just to post anonymously sometimes and let the telecom providers (among others) find out what your other SIM cards are through your device ID? Or will you get a SIM card from another country to use exclusively and pay roaming costs / live with a worse data plan in Austria? People apparently forget that telecoms providers cooperate with authorities, new legislatio…

Roaming costs are basically non-existant these days in the EU. For me it is cheaper to use internet through roaming than buying local plan.

> Roaming costs are basically non-existant these days in the EU.

Data plans can be limited for other countries, even within the EU (and frequently are), i.e. if your prepaid contract allows 5GB monthly data transfer for free, the provider might limit this to 500MB for roaming and beyond that limit, you can pay a hefty fee per MB.

In general, prepaid cards aren't famous for having a generous data plan...

Re: Austrian government seeks to eliminate internet anonymity, with severe penalties

#84

Post by codedokode »

Findus23 wrote: post #25

In case anyone wants to know how this should work, this is the explanation by the minister: There are "technical possibilities where software can run on the backend that can immediately identify: Does the registered mobile phone number match the name and address or not?" - derstandard.at/2000101678440/Minister-Bluemels-Ominous-De-Anonymization-Software (from https://derstandard.at/2000101678440/Minister-Bluemels-Omin…

I think the important part is that they have mobile number stored, and later police can verify whether it matches the name or not, and if it doesn't, I assume, there will be additional penalty for providing false identification information.

Re: Austrian government seeks to eliminate internet anonymity, with severe penalties

#85

Post by the_mitsuhiko »

lazyjones wrote: post #83
tasubotadas wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Roaming costs are basically non-existant these days in the EU. For me it is cheaper to use internet through roaming than buying local plan.

> Roaming costs are basically non-existant these days in the EU. Data plans can be limited for other countries, even within the EU (and frequently are), i.e. if your prepaid contract allows 5GB monthly data transfer for free, the provider might limit this to 500MB for roaming and beyond that limit, you can pay a hefty fee per MB. In general, prepaid cards aren't famous for having a generous data plan...

You need almost no data to register an account.

Re: Austrian government seeks to eliminate internet anonymity, with severe penalties

#87

Post by gxwmg »

the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #80
readittwice wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that's just your opinion. The OVP is center-right, the FPO is right wing/populistic.

The OeVP current platform is to curb rights of immigrants, to reduce social support systems, lowers corporate tax rates, introduces laws to restrict social housing to non immigrants, reduces child support payments for children in other EU countries, continues the policy on border controls in Schengen, restricts skilled immigration, sets a maximum limit of 1.5 euro per hour income for asylum seekers when doing social…

But do the ÖVP actually do that? I'm Spanish and I voted for a "conservative" government this last election, where they promised to do, well, stuff I expected from a conservative party, and they didn't do shit. That's why I call them "centrist". They say they are conservatives, but they don't conserve anything.

Re: Austrian government seeks to eliminate internet anonymity, with severe penalties

#88

Post by Findus23 »

superwayne wrote: post #57

There is also an interview (unfortunately in German, but automatically translated subtitles are available) with the minister who is responsible for the bill: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Sm7Q1bjW5o

Asked by the interviewer if this isn't the same as asking bar owners to check the ID of every visitor just in case a bar fight breaks out, the minister answered:

"Das ist ja ein Blödsinn, was sie da reden" (This is total nonsense you are talking about)

Re: Austrian government seeks to eliminate internet anonymity, with severe penalties

#89

Post by [deleted] »

yaris wrote: post #75
lazyjones wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So tell me how this will work. Will you swap SIM cards just to post anonymously sometimes and let the telecom providers (among others) find out what your other SIM cards are through your device ID? Or will you get a SIM card from another country to use exclusively and pay roaming costs / live with a worse data plan in Austria? People apparently forget that telecoms providers cooperate with authorities, new legislatio…

I cannot say for sure but as I remember EU countries eliminated roaming charges, even for prepaid. OTOH there are not so many EU countries that sell prepaid without ID.

[deleted]

Re: Austrian government seeks to eliminate internet anonymity, with severe penalties

#90

Post by stakhanov »

The fact that they're calling it "digitales vermummungsverbot" already tells you everything you need to know: There is no real rationale here, besides a political stunt of the right-wing government to curry favour with the right-leaning parts of the populus.

The original "vermummungsverbot" is a law to prohibit people from wearing a veil in public. The pretense was that people hiding their identity were by definition a security threat to the law abiding general public. The political effect was that xenophobs liked the idea of a law that was opposed to certain aspects of islam. The reality is that the law has no effect, since there are almost no people in Austria would would want to wear a veil in public in the first place apart from maybe the odd female tourist visiting from Saudi Arabia.

The idea now is that the same should apply to the digital sphere.

My guess would be that they know full well that it's never going to pass into law and make it past Brussels. But to them it's a win-win. Either they get a law that appeases the right-wing populus. Or Brussels stops them, playing into their anti-European narrative, which would also gain them political capital.

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